Don't do chaotic raid again

[Lilapop]

I honestly cannot wait until we have this very same discussion but the other way around, when BIS gear will be locked behind cosmic exploration or whatever the hell it was.
Oh it will be glorious.

(probably wont happen but you all gotta admit it would be funny as hell)

Also, didn YoshiP told us, that discord is technically a 3rd party program? And people straight up making it a requirement for runs and advertising it on the forums? D:

On a serious note tho, genuinely believe that this content will be dead by mid january at best. Such wasted dev time.

No, no. You're misunderstanding surely! THAT one third party program is approved by the community!!!

[Collin_Sky]

Many reasons? Some people like raids with more bodies? (DRS, DLL, DR, Castrum, BA, Alliance Raids etc.) for one.

If someone has no experience in Savage (or even Extreme) then they have no place doing Chaotic. They are simply not skilled/used to content of that level and will be forcing 23 other people to suffer wipe upon wipe because of them.
Chaotic is absolutely not "my first difficult content". Content with this many people demands consistency.

[Lilapop]

If someone has no experience in Savage (or even Extreme) then they have no place doing Chaotic. They are simply not skilled/used to content of that level and will be forcing 23 other people to suffer wipe upon wipe because of them.
Chaotic is absolutely not "my first difficult content". Content with this many people demands consistency.

Again, that begs the question, who is this content for? It was very much obviously designed to get new people interested in jumping right in with all those rewards thrown into it.

[Collin_Sky]

who is this content for?

People like Arthars who went to every single fanfest across the globe and begged Yoshi P for it every single time he met him.

The devs tried to advertise this as a gateway content for casuals to get into hardcore content, and that is absolutely not the reality we got. If casuals aren't already doing extremes (which is easier than this) they aren't going to do this, and those that are, are just ruining it for everyone. It's been very obvious while progging and clearing this in PF over the past 2 days, who was used to content of this level and who wasn't.
The issue is, content of this scale demands that you are a consistent player. PF is barely consistent enough for 8 man savage fights, put 24 of them together, and you're going to guarantee that one or two people per pull will mess up and snowball into a wipe.

[Lilapop]

People like Arthars who went to every single fanfest across the globe and begged Yoshi P for it every single time he met him.

The devs tried to advertise this as a gateway content for casuals to get into hardcore content, and that is absolutely not the reality we got. If casuals aren't already doing extremes (which is easier than this) they aren't going to do this, and those that are, are just ruining it for everyone. It's been very obvious while progging and clearing this in PF over the past 2 days, who was used to content of this level and who wasn't.
The issue is, content of this scale demands that you are a consistent player. PF is barely consistent enough for 8 man savage fights, put 24 of them together, and you're going to guarantee that one or two people per pull will mess up and snowball into a wipe.

This content basically is added to the pile of Savage tier raids current tier raiders already got this expansion, at the end of the day. Just with more desirable rewards.

[Collin_Sky]

This content basically is added to the pile of Savage tier raids current tier raiders already got this expansion, at the end of the day. Just with more desirable rewards.

This is where we disagree. I'm absolutely okay with more Savage level content. I loved criterion, for example. I just don't think the playerbase is consistent enough for 24 man content. If criterion had gotten rewards of this scale (instead of basically nothing) it would have been a much bigger success.
I wish the dev time went into more criterion than this Chaotic fight. It was longer and the fights were actually more engaging.

[Lilapop]

This is where we disagree. I'm absolutely okay with more Savage level content. I loved criterion, for example. I just don't think the playerbase is consistent enough for 24 man content. If criterion had gotten rewards of this scale (instead of basically nothing) it would have been a much bigger success.
I wish the dev time went into more criterion than this Chaotic fight. It was longer and the fights were actually more engaging.

I'm unsure how this is disagreeable? This is another Extreme or Savage tier level fight on top of the others already dropped in this expansion, not to mention FRU, with the lack of... anything else for people who don't raid.

[LibitIncarne]

I'm unsure how this is disagreeable? This is another Extreme or Savage tier level fight on top of the others already dropped in this expansion, not to mention FRU, with the lack of... anything else for people who don't raid.

jUsT wAiT fOr OcCuLt CrEsCeNt

[AyumiCosplayGlam]

To be honest people have been doing this for years. I didn't very much like his view of what a third-party program is, it feels like he took it far, far too literally instead of trying to actually look at the spirit of the issue. But alas he's the producer and director so...

I don't think it's wasted dev time, but like 90% of things they implement in this game.. It's half-done. Chaotic should've had 2 tiers behind it really as opposed to the singular, that way you're still introducing people to that content instead of throwing them straight in and then the community coming up with their own rules. - If it isn't 1 thing with this team then it's another.

I know, his take was pretty much bs.

Not a waste of dev time?
Tell me, is it not a waste of time and resource to set up a McDonalds in the middle of the desert with no civilization in a 500km radius?Its not a bad thing to have, just the timing and place make it a waste to set up.

Same can be applied to chaotic, its not a bad thing that we have it inherently, its just that niche content like this should be only focused on when the masses are satisfied to some degree, that has not happened since yawntrail release and sure as hell wont happen until around March-May.

When they saw the reception of Yawntrail, they should have been dropping everything that can be categorized as luxuries and start working all hands on deck to course correct.
Its not hard to rebalance all alliance raids for max level on a fixed item level for example and give us a roulette for it with some totems as rewards that can be exchanged for shinies.

No joke, i could probably do it within a week without any help, once i have an optimal hp/damage output for a boss, 80% of the work is done, the rest is just minibosses and mobs.
And guess what, rebalancing all those raids are only "hard to do" only once/expansion, once you have it you are done until the next level cap.
Its not rocket science to create content that the majority of our playerbase can interact with.
But for some reason rebalancing outdated content for max level is restricted to 1 extreme trial in every 4 months which is rotated out, why exactly?
Why cant we have normal old content rebalanced for max level so we can use all our skills in more content?

Even if they cannot do bandaid course correction like this fast enough for whatever reason, its still better to delay the chaotic by a few weeks and putting out fires anywhere you can, rather than pour some gasoline on it by making it as the only content for 4 months and asking people to hang on.

[Supersnow845]

You lost me at "Excessive savage release over casual content is fair enough." How is this fair enough? Who is this fair for?

I meant it’s a fair enough criticism