Chaotic Alliance Raid is a fun fight, but awful content

[Infindox]

But that's also your choice to not engage in such content. If the dev isn't providing the content you want, unsub and come back when there is stuff that you specifically want to do.

Or...engage in new types of content so that you have more stuff to do overall.

What content?
They released absolutely nothing for people who enjoy playing the game but raid rarely. I don't know why they insist on waiting so long for the relic weapon and whatever the space stuff entails again. Even this content is a bust; after someone gets what they want, most won't do it again. If it was a BA/DRS style I could have seen it, but not this.
I love this game overall but it feels like I get punished constantly for being a player that plays solo some days and with only two or three friends other days, and enjoys having hard but puggable content I can grind.

[FuturePastNow]

They could have saved a lot of work and made content accessible to the bulk of the playerbase simply by rescaling the CT alliance raids.

Could have done that just like the Unreal trial, level 100 with a 695 sync

[AllenThyl]

This is not about type of content. This is content difficulty.
People wanted more difficulty Alliance Raids apart from the normal 24-people-snoozefest-3-set per expansion.
What people didn't want was a 24-man Savage fight.

If a piece of content can still be cleared when several people keep messing up again and again, failing major mechanics and positioning, what exactly would be "difficult" about it? How precisely would a "difficult" fight look without mechanics that require basically everyone to solve them correctly?

[AllenThyl]

Hold on, this isn’t appropriate. Many people say that you should NOT unsub, because you need to do your weeklies to get 730 level (the minimum for this raid). If you don’t want to do it, that means you’re not playing the game enough and you need to “get gud”. Right? So we HAVE to do this. Either that or we give up on Dawntrail entirely. Because what else is there for us to do until summer of 2025? And when the next CAR comes out, you’re going to say we should’ve been playing this whole time. There’s no winning option here. Either we waste hours and hours during the holidays grinding or we leave for good.

This is an action combat MMORPG, not a dress-up simulator. The rewards are to entice people to play and be subscribed to the game. If you aren't interested in playing the game, thus actually being subscribed, hence able to get all the gear the game throws at you, what do you need the rewards for in the first place? Especially, since your argument is absolutely in bad faith, as 720 gear is easily gotten real quick without weekly lockouts. And the difference between what you can get real quick and BiS is about 5-8% damage wise. The biggest factor for successfully clearing harder content in this game has and always will be player skill first and foremost. Do your rotation properly, mitigate properly, do the mechanics properly, don't amass vuln stacks and deaths like they are a collectable. Use food and pots. Better gear just makes it easier. Stop expecting to constantly get carried through everything and getting handed everything without even wanting to participate in activities.

[ovIm]

This is an action combat MMORPG, not a dress-up simulator. The rewards are to entice people to play and be subscribed to the game. If you aren't interested in playing the game, thus actually being subscribed, hence able to get all the gear the game throws at you, what do you need the rewards for in the first place?

Macchiato was arguing against the "if there is nothing to play, unsub" argument, which does ring true though. People keep telling players that if there is nothing in the game that interests them, they should unsub. But unsubbed people don't get gear, and don't get the experience required to clear this content. You see how that is an issue in and out of itself?
So its not actually "unsub", its "keep paying a sub fee, do your weeklies, and pray for content to drop that interests you".

Especially, since your argument is absolutely in bad faith, as 720 gear is easily gotten real quick without weekly lockouts. And the difference between what you can get real quick and BiS is about 5-8% damage wise. The biggest factor for successfully clearing harder content in this game has and always will be player skill first and foremost. Do your rotation properly, mitigate properly, do the mechanics properly, don't amass vuln stacks and deaths like they are a collectable. Use food and pots. Better gear just makes it easier.

Thats not whats being argued here though.
i720 tome gear and i720 augmented crafted gear will still not get you in i730 locked out parties. Hells, you could have hunted and done your weeklies since 7.1 released, upgraded every gear piece you can, and still, due to having an i720 ring and i725 weapon at best, be locked out of i730 parties.
Does not matter if it is just a few % of damage difference, people use the i730 to lock out everyone that does not have savage gear.

Stop expecting to constantly get carried through everything and getting handed everything without even wanting to participate in activities.

Not everyone expects to be carried, but wanting a fighting chance to clear.

[Hypnotic13371337]

You'd think after making this game for 10 years, they would know what we mean by midcore content by now

[FuturePastNow]

You'd think after making this game for 10 years, they would know what we mean by midcore content by now

It's more likely that they know, but for whatever reason don't want to make that content.

[LibitIncarne]

It's more likely that they know, but for whatever reason don't want to make that content.

They don't know because they're only listening to the ultimate raiders who say that Savage is "midcore" and want to pander to them.

[CNitsah]

They don't know because they're only listening to the ultimate raiders who say that Savage is "midcore" and want to pander to them.

That exactly. I keep seeing people saying relics are casual content because it's easy. If you think casual players will farm several times for 30 hours per relic weapon, you don't know what being a casual means. There sure overlap, a casual player might do the relic quest once for the story. But farming several of them? Just no. But it's easy thus it's casual.

[Lilapop]

Adding my two cents here, on Aether, at the time of me typing this there are 8 PFs up, of those 8, all require ilvls from 720-777 (yeah idk about ilvl 777), all of them have either a pastebin, a raidplan, or both in their descriptions. Thankfully very few require ilvl 730, that would be locked behind current tier savage. The target audience for this raid is 100% endgame raiders. A new raider who hasn't touched Savage or Extreme in their life is going to look at those descriptions and join up feeling lost, or be too intimidated to bother at all. Not going to get into the rewards because everyone above touched on it enough.

24 player body check that 1 out of 24 people can cause a wipe for everyone? This is definitely not something non raiders would thrive in. I popped into PF on day one, it was chill, but we couldn't do more than a few pulls without someone leaving, we even had a whole party leave together at one point. This content is quickly being gate kept by the community of "oh well you should do current tier savage, get ilvl730, and then try this raid!" Ideally, you can get ilvl 729 without touching savage, 728 or 727 without touching current tier Extreme. At this point, it's a 24 person Savage trial. The average "casual" player isn't going to get these rewards, considering how one person can cause a wipe for 23 other people, "carrying" is unlikely and uncommon too.

Anyone unironically thinking this is accessible to new non raiders, in PF alone, is laughably out of touch. "Just don't do it if you don't want to" or "git good skrub" aren't acceptable replies either? Raiders are getting well fed with the back to back to back raids being dropped. Everyone else either has to hop in, and when they do, they're told to "git good" and probably leave. Let's not try to call this or describe it as anything other than what it is.