Do you think that Picto needs a nerf?

[AmiableApkallu]

If the damage of Pictomancer was actually nerfed, the casuals who like Pictomancer's gameplay would still play it, because if they don't actually do content where that balance matters, then they also won't exactly be affected other than "my numbers are now lower I guess".

I think "casuals" would very much notice how Pictomancer was nerfed.

Across-the-board flat potency reductions? It'd feel bad to read that in patch notes given that's not how SE has rolled in the past, but it'd be unlikely to be felt in actual gameplay.

Make motifs always require an enemy target? That's a fantastic way to make every dungeon feel like garbage compared to the current state.

Preserve motif insta-casts outside of combat but fiddle with cast times while in combat? Probably depends on the details of how that's implemented, the particular encounter, etc.

[mallleable]

Maybe a take, but hammer combo should be melee ranged.

[SenzorialBoundries]

Pictomancer does not need a nerf at all im sorry. It needs a full on rework because this job will never be balanced ever no matter how you tweak the numbers it will remain broken.

[Supersnow845]

Pictomancer does not need a nerf at all im sorry. It needs a full on rework because this job will never be balanced ever no matter how you tweak the numbers it will remain broken.

PCT is literally the last job that needs a rework because it’s the only job trying to do something different. It just needs to be nerfed to be as in line as possible

Unless we want to go back to the games most unique design being dissipation

[Realfoxy]

PCT is literally the last job that needs a rework because it’s the only job trying to do something different. It just ndoesn’t red ti be nerfed to be as in line as possible

Unless we want to go back to the games most unique design being dissipation

I'd disagree. PCT is just the "build up for 2min burst" style of job design taken to an extreme. Don't get me wrong, it's a got a fun theme, looks nice, and painting to prepare your big strong motifs does feel good. But it's hardly doing anything unique in terms of job design.

I don't want PCT to lose motif painting in downtime because it does fit with the job. I just don't think the way the job plays is particularly special.

If you want an example of a unique design, well, we did have some jobs that didn't fit in with the "bursty job" meta. They were Endwalker BLM and pre-rework PLD.

[Supersnow845]

I'd disagree. PCT is just the "build up for 2min burst" style of job design taken to an extreme. Don't get me wrong, it's a got a fun theme, looks nice, and painting to prepare your big strong motifs does feel good. But it's hardly doing anything unique in terms of job design.

I don't want PCT to lose motif painting in downtime because it does fit with the job. I just don't think the way the job plays is particularly special.

If you want an example of a unique design, well, we did have some jobs that didn't fit in with the "bursty job" meta. They were Endwalker BLM and pre-rework PLD.

That’s why I said trying to do “something” different

Loading motifs in downtime is pretty much the most unique mechanic a job currently has in this game. It’s the only job that doesn’t hate downtime, I’m not comparing it to the older jobs, I’m comparing it to the current jobs

It’s still at its core a builder spender but besides motifs we basically go back to like I said dissipation being the most unique button in the game

[Carighan]

There's a host of choices to balancing it, but it's always important to keep in mind that just an across-the-board potency nerf (not even one more subtle like nerfing skills by more but only burst-centric and oGCDs, which would be better but isn't even necessary) would alleviate much of the issue already.

But hey, another patch goes by without Picto nerfs, because why bother balancing your PvE at all, amirite SQEX?!

[Lyth]

An across the board potency nerf (or more likely, an across the board potency gain for everyone else) is probably the most likely result. I don't think this can be done in a balanced way that accounts for both high and low uptime conditions, but at this point, they're better off just biting the bullet and doing it. Then when the PCT players all swap back to SMN, at least you can step in and address the motif issue in a fair way without resistance. That way, perhaps the jobs will actually be somewhat balanced in time for the final tier.

I think they'd be better off rotating in a completely fresh job design team at this point, personally. I know that they can't seem to recruit anybody, but I wonder if that's partially because there's a culture built up that resists change.

[Wayfinder3]

OK I really don't get this attitude towards PCT.

PCT does not represent some fundamentally broken threat towards job design and balance. PCT is fun, I get it, but let's not pretend that just nerfing the job is going to magically suck all the fun out of it (unless your fun comes from being stupidly OP, in which case, tough luck).

Like I'm fine with a little imbalance between jobs in service of playstyle diversity. But you can't have PCT's playstyle be "does the highest damage in every single type of content. and brings raid utility as well". That's not having a niche that's just being overpowered!

The heal is fine, the shield is fine, you just need to tone back on the insane burst a bit. There's plenty of room to nerf motifs or tone back the raid buff strength while still making the job feel the same to play.

As a BLM main I don't have a problem with PCT outputting higher damage in full raid buff stacking comps designed around it. I do have a problem with PCT being higher in rDPS when rDPS doesn't capture how hard PCT feeds others' buffs, while also bringing better utility.

But why does that matter, ultimately, black mage is only slightly off pictomancer in fill uptime. So which one you bring is completely irrelevant. Ultimate is the only place where pictomancer eclipses it effortlessly but that’s not a potency issue, that’s an issue with how the class is designed because if you adjust the potency to make pictomancer balanced in ultimate. It is now under performing in savage.

That’s the issue we’re facing. Pictomancer being better than black mage doesn’t matter, one has to be better. The real problem is that it’s so good in ultimate because it was designed around embracing downtime while every other job in the game groans at the thought of it.

Instead of taking from picto, it could be beneficial for use it as the template to move jobs away from this 100% uptime design they have and give them mechanics that scale in various ways with the inclusion of downtime. Pictomancer is the logical extreme, so let’s fill in the gradient a bit.

[Carighan]

But why does that matter, ultimately, black mage is only slightly off pictomancer in fill uptime. So which one you bring is completely irrelevant.

I mean, other than the en avant or the groupshield or the higher base mobility of Picto. Yeah. Basically doesn't matter I suppose. :')