Pld buff or War nerf in 1.22?

[Daniel_Fury]

Actually the "nerf" looks more like they're just decreasing possible damage output while tanking, in favor to increasing their DD output when not-tanking which falls more in line with what Yoshi said about WAR being too strong a DD and Tank at the same time needing the adjustment. WAR will still be out-damaging PLD by a sizable margin for the same reasons it is now, because Riot Blade> Rage of Halone combo is from the backside, so PLD still would suffer from the same complications WAR would have trying to do Whirlwind or Godsblade combos when tanking and not being able to utilize it's better WS damage potential.

That's how I read it.

Berserk effect being revised. Higher dps output, but defence will still be lowered, making it of course a bad buff to tank with. However, it gives it a more versatile role as either DD or Tank.

I hope it doesn't reset on taking damage because I feel that is the flaw of Berserk.

[Aceofspades]

True, but then again, I don't see the point in having a job do absolutely nothing just so you can do your own.

If the DD's are pumping out damage constantly, but the PLD can't hold hate, then essentially the DD's ARE doing their job, but the PLD ISN'T doing his job because he can't tank and hold hate. Likewise, if the PLD IS holding hate and tanking, but the DD's are having to hold back in order for the PLD to do so, then the DD's technically aren't doing their job, which is to deal high amounts of damage.

Either way, there is something wrong, and it could easily be fixed in my opinion if PLD could just generate significantly more enmity, and not have it be based purely on damage output or healing like everything else.

have you tried aoe cures after seer hits the mages? builds hate well, also helps if the party stands with you right when you start to voke , allows you to do rampart, the more people it hits the stronger the hate hold is. Honestly I am not saying you dont know how to tank on PLD I just have a hard time seeing why people have a hard time keeping hate on pld ..... survivablity is un matched by WAR, fast hate grab is better on PLD and in some situations , PLD works as a PT def/heal buffer.

[Daniel_Fury]

True, but then again, I don't see the point in having a job do absolutely nothing just so you can do your own.

If the DD's are pumping out damage constantly, but the PLD can't hold hate, then essentially the DD's ARE doing their job, but the PLD ISN'T doing his job because he can't tank and hold hate. Likewise, if the PLD IS holding hate and tanking, but the DD's are having to hold back in order for the PLD to do so, then the DD's technically aren't doing their job, which is to deal high amounts of damage.

Either way, there is something wrong, and it could easily be fixed in my opinion if PLD could just generate significantly more enmity, and not have it be based purely on damage output or healing like everything else.

I don't get the emnity issues people are experiencing on the job.

Since 1.21a hot fixes, I dropped all emnity gear completely for HP and have no issue with hate control at all. I'm always on vent and asking my dps "Hey guys, how's the hate doing? Anyone red?"
It's always in yellow with an exception of maybe the start of chimera.

Ten second hate warm up is all it takes to get started.

[Hoshikogi]

I hope it doesn't reset on taking damage because I feel that is the flaw of Berserk.

I agree. Lowered potential over time and/or setting a max proc rate seems more useful. Although, berserk could be made more fun if, when reaching a specific number of consecutive hits (certain amount of rage), you pull off an amazing attack of some sort, causing the damage-up effect to reset.

[Daniel_Fury]

Although, berserk could be made more fun if, when reaching a specific number of consecutive hits (certain amount of rage), you pull off an amazing attack of some sort, causing the damage-up effect to reset.

Don't tease!! I want this now!

[Darkillumina]

Actually the "nerf" looks more like they're just decreasing possible damage output while tanking, in favor to increasing their DD output when not-tanking which falls more in line with what Yoshi said about WAR being too strong a DD and Tank at the same time needing the adjustment. WAR will still be out-damaging PLD by a sizable margin for the same reasons it is now, because Riot Blade> Rage of Halone combo is from the backside, so PLD still would suffer from the same complications WAR would have trying to do Whirlwind or Godsblade combos when tanking and not being able to utilize it's better WS damage potential.

This points to conclusion #2 I stated. Conclusion 2 means Pally remains undesirable. Warrior gets a lot of its hate from damage. Tanking and DD are not mutually exclusive for the job. Warrior needs the DD to generate hate it can't generate hate by spamming heals on itself or others with cure or any other healing ability. By buffing the power of its other skills for DD any sane warrior would just utilize a smooth rotation to continue to generate hate. Ok Steel cyclone will probably get a 1 minute cooldown. Sweet. I'll just rotate in a godsbane or whirlwind combo in the meantime and keep up a rotation that will build up even more hate.

As the job is currently designed you can't just tank or DD. They are one and the same. Boosting one facet just means that it can better be utilized to do the other facet.

Again what Se is doing here is going to lead to one of the classes being underutilized.

There is a third conclusion I forgot to mention. >>> Warrior's berserk and DD buff is so significant it efficiently eclipses the other DD's. They complain and now need balancing as well. And at that point we're off to the nerfing/buffing races for EVERY SINGLE DAMN job.

They are creating a huge headache for themselves here.

Let's break the changes down.

Berserk getting buff > Great for DD option but insignificant in the long run for tanking because........

Rampage is unchanged and it has been stated that apart from collusion and SC all other abilities will remain the same WITH whirlwind getting a boost. Effect to tanking is negligible as the they appear to not be re-working the way enmity is generated. Result > Warriors will rotate their skills better to keep their hate at premium levels while still dishing out respectable damage.

[Aceofspades]

Are there long fights?

ahh, and that sir is the ONLY reason PLD is not the choice tank these days. SE give insentives for speed runs. Wich is fine. However they have yet to give us a fight that can not be masterd in less then a week. The only fights in wich I would suggest PLD over WAR even in speed run instances are, Princess in CC, Batrall in DH, and Ifrit (if your PLD can successfully replace a WHM, its not easy but can be done)

[Aceofspades]

that being said. I always main tank on my PLD , I feel more comfortable with staying alive under my own controlable abilties rather then hoping that a massive tp move hits to build hate or self heal. on trash mobs WAR is the shit. anytime you can get a 90% or higher chance of hit and a 60% or higher chance of crit, WAR kicks ass. under that, its too unreliable as a tank.

[Aion]

have you tried aoe cures after seer hits the mages? builds hate well, also helps if the party stands with you right when you start to voke , allows you to do rampart, the more people it hits the stronger the hate hold is. Honestly I am not saying you dont know how to tank on PLD I just have a hard time seeing why people have a hard time keeping hate on pld ..... survivablity is un matched by WAR, fast hate grab is better on PLD and in some situations , PLD works as a PT def/heal buffer.

wait...do you talking about Ifrit? Seer(or sear?) hitting mages? how come?

survivability unmatched by WAR? are you serious?

[SwordCoheir]

I am sorry if I am having a hard time understanding your point of veiw simply because , and if this is a low number plz let me know, with a all blm/thm dd party the avg damage done between all 5 of the blm/thms is roughly 15-20k , I still manage to keep hate well. I think the hardest hitting blm in the group grabs Ifrit early but thats becuase she gets excited and forgets about freeze :P. All that and we get a 7 minute speed run, and I will take roughly 20-22k damage on avg now with devine veil being soo awsome. And I only had +8 enmity. I know hate controll on PLD is ok because it takes my best WAR with DPS gear on over half the fight to steal hate from me. After that he keeps hate ofcourse but that with him trying to steal hate...maybe our play styles are diffrent. not saying your wrong just different.

WOAH WOAH WOAH! I'm starting to see why your not having tanking issues right there! Ifrit has a little over 32.7k HP, if five BLM's are only averaging 15-20K total that means three non DD people are doing about 40% of the work taking him out of course your not gonna have hate issues. A good DD or BLM should be doing around at least 6-8k apiece (accounting for regen and how fast your DPSing) meaning your DD group should be doing at least 24k-28k minimum, roughly leaving the other 4.7k to be taken up by you and the non-DD focused players in your group.