7.1 Dragoon Changes Complaints

[Valence]

There was a mistranslation going about 7.2 including new job design changes. That was corrected however, 7.2 is where the new encounter design should appear, which is supposed to pave the way for a new job design base.

I'll believe it when i see it.

Don't hold your breath.

For jobs we're getting more and more simplifications and the sandpaper treatment, which naturally brings a lot of questions when it comes to the vaunted 8.0 job rework.
For encounters we're getting more and more visual DDR bullshit, which also naturally brings a lot of questions when it comes to the vaunted encounter rework.

[ovIm]

Don't hold your breath.

Oh, I am not holding my breath - what do you think "I'll believe it when I see it." means?
Yoshi-P's promised direction, and the patches actual direction differ noticeably.

[Schan]

My dudes, you're all taking the troll bait hard, and doing so only makes the feedback here more difficult to parse for whoever collects it for the devs.

counter-point which I didn't want to say it out loud. By feeding the troll the post count goes up and community devs will have to look into the thread.

Now, going on a tangent, I haven't read the interview in June but I am genuinely concerned that the community is taking the whole "increasing stress" YoshiP mentioned as more job complexity. What I am seeing trending in DT is that said stress will not come in the form of a "job rotation stress" but instead as "fight mechanics stress". Although I kind of like DT in the sense they have introduced and brought back mechanics I have enjoyed in the past I could also see the amount of complaining about the increased in difficulty.

Furthermore, the tendencies I have seen from the devs is that body check mechanics (aka if one person messes up it's a party wipe bc you need all 8 players for that mechanic) is how they increase the difficulty and I am not very keen on that type of mechanics. The most fun this one has is when a fight is a complete mess and you somehow still pull it off and I have a feeling this is the kind of fun healers thrive on. My conclusion is that there needs to be balance. I don't want a case of Levi Savage where you had 1 mechanic that had to pay attention to but i also don't want a case of Athena Savage where every other mechanic was a body check.

The other tendency they have been using lately to inflate difficulty which I absolutely disagree with is how they seem to only throw in those punishing mechanics every 2 minute mark (read: when you're doing your burst). One of the arguments I've seen in favor of these DRG changes is that now you have time to use Feint and my original counter argument to that was "shock horror you have to talk to the other players in your team and coordinate cooldowns" (which will never happen in PF lets be real) but in DT it feels like EVERY. SINGLE. MECHANIC. is at the 2 minute mark which makes my argument of "use communication duh" moot.

Back onto DRG complaints though, I am basically repeating myself ad nauseum the devs have created this problem with overly busy 2 minute burst rotation and I feel like the fact that our oGCDs now have a combo (or a follow-up whatever you prefer to call it) actually exacerbated the problem and Nastrond absolutely did not deserve to be culled down to 1 because of this oversight.

On another note, I think I have finally realised why we have the sadness skedaddle (read: Wing Glide). Most melees have a disengage and engage button and this has now brought DRG in line to most melees. I'm still not sold on the fact that Elusive buffs your throw spear. I don't just use Elusive for disengaging and now I'll probably going to be punished if I use Elusive at the "wrong time" as per dev vision.

[HikariKurosawa]

Now, going on a tangent, I haven't read the interview in June but I am genuinely concerned that the community is taking the whole "increasing stress" YoshiP mentioned as more job complexity. What I am seeing trending in DT is that said stress will not come in the form of a "job rotation stress" but instead as "fight mechanics stress". Although I kind of like DT in the sense they have introduced and brought back mechanics I have enjoyed in the past I could also see the amount of complaining about the increased in difficulty.

This was always what was implied and anything other than this was just misinterpretation.

You could always get by in 99% of content by ignoring the majority of the jobs' rotation, yet the encounter difficulty had always been balanced around optimal job execution. It's a flawed concept and they had to simplify in order to make encounters the way they wanted them to be. Personally I hated how easy this game was, and was put off by what it took to play the jobs to the fullest. I shouldn't have to do ultimate content to avoid falling asleep.

Yoshida also addressed previous feedback indicating that the game had become too stress-free, leading to a lack of novelty and challenge. This feedback prompted Yoshi-P, along with the team, a reevaluation of how battle mechanics are designed.

"In a positive sense, the game became stress-free, but in a negative sense, it lacked novelty and a sense of challenge," Yoshida admitted. He noted that the development team had been making overly safe decisions to avoid upsetting players, resulting in repetitive mechanics. However, he stated that the FFXIV team has an evolving approach to developing battle content, additionally assuring that encounters will require better strategy.

Starting from Patch 7.1, a major content update for the game, players will notice the shift towards more challenging battle gimmicks, said Yoshi-P. The team is "experimenting with new ideas in patch 7.0 to gradually introduce these changes." Yoshida assured players that while the story dungeons will remain accessible and enjoyable, expert-level content will feature many new, interesting mechanics.

"So I don't think [players] will feel the same way as before, especially if you are new to the game. After a few days of playing and getting used to it, you will probably find that it will gradually settle down to just the right amount of thrill."

When all the difficulty comes from mastering the job rotations, there will never be novelty. It gets very old very fast. Why work so hard at doing a flawless rotation for easy encounters that pretty much can't be failed? For a cringe parse? Now a lot of the people who were attached to high parses can't parse as high, and they are disappointed. How about just play the game?

[ovIm]

Now, going on a tangent, I haven't read the interview in June but I am genuinely concerned that the community is taking the whole "increasing stress" YoshiP mentioned as more job complexity. What I am seeing trending in DT is that said stress will not come in the form of a "job rotation stress" but instead as "fight mechanics stress". Although I kind of like DT in the sense they have introduced and brought back mechanics I have enjoyed in the past I could also see the amount of complaining about the increased in difficulty.

The interview in question can be found here if you are interested in giving it a real read to properly understand what was said..

While there is a mistranslation in there (job changes are not supposed to come 7.2, but on 8.0. 7.2 marks when new instances are coming), the money quote in there stands:

In an attempt to curb multiple updates' worth of simplification, Yoshi-P details how Square Enix "will be incorporating various changes" post-Dawntrail, some of which will be "related to the skill rotations." He even jokes that Kaiten could return as "Kaiten 2" and reiterates his earlier promise - come such changes, classes "will not be more simple."

Which, so far, they have not followed up upon.

In a different interview, Yoshi-P gave an interview where he lamented that FFXIV was too stress-free, comparing it to a platformer with no pits to fall into. As there is no victory without hurdles.

[HeavenlyArmed]

Tbh, at this point it's hard to believe it's ever gonna happen.

Frankly I'm not so pessimistic. And I can tell you why. Remember the Mirage Dive change that happened briefly in Endwalker? Remember how they got enough backlash to that change that they reverted it the very next patch? We in this thread could very easily make this Nastrond change into a similar situation. While it's not always the case that backlash is heard, it's also not fair to say that there isn't precedent for unpopular changes to be reverted on Dragoon specifically.

[HikariKurosawa]

The interview in question can be found here if you are interested in giving it a real read to properly understand what was said..

While there is a mistranslation in there (job changes are not supposed to come 7.2, but on 8.0. 7.2 marks when new instances are coming), the money quote in there stands:


Which, so far, they have not followed up upon.

In a different interview, Yoshi-P gave an interview where he lamented that FFXIV was too stress-free, comparing it to a platformer with no pits to fall into. As there is no victory without hurdles.

Both those interviews are the article writer jumping to conclusions to push their own narrative lol.

[CidHeiral]

The interview in question can be found here if you are interested in giving it a real read to properly understand what was said..

While there is a mistranslation in there (job changes are not supposed to come 7.2, but on 8.0. 7.2 marks when new instances are coming), the money quote in there stands:


Which, so far, they have not followed up upon.

In a different interview, Yoshi-P gave an interview where he lamented that FFXIV was too stress-free, comparing it to a platformer with no pits to fall into. As there is no victory without hurdles.

There's also his interview with that Italian site.

Now let's move on to the Job mechanics . We get a lot of feedback like, "This Job has a gap closer ability and mine doesn't." The obvious solution is to implement similar abilities for each Job, but doing so runs the risk of ending up in a situation where all the Jobs become too similar to each other . We want to create a situation where each Job has its own abilities, shines in its own unique way, and there's even some pride in playing a particular Job. By strongly differentiating the Jobs, we'll be able to achieve our goal. That's why we'd like to take a step back and bring things back to how they were before.

Another key point concerns synergies: we chose to align the buff windows within a 120-second window, because otherwise it would have been impossible to align the rotations of the different Jobs. But, again, the result was to make the rotations of the Jobs extremely similar, and I don't think that's a good thing . So why not act now? Battle Content and Job mechanics are strongly interconnected, so we set ourselves the challenge of first refining the Battle Content and the battle mechanics, and then dedicating ourselves to the Jobs.

If we were to rework everything at once, it would be extremely chaotic for the players, which is why I wanted to explain to the players in the Live Letter that we will first fix the battle mechanics and give the audience time to get used to it, and only then can we work on making the Jobs more exciting. This is what I meant in the Live Letter, it is the reason why the work on Jobs will come later in the future.

Source: https://multiplayer.it/articoli/fina...nciamento.html

"That's why we'd like to take a step back and bring things back to how they were before" is the most interesting part. That could mean a lot of things depending on what time period he means by "before" and to what extent.

[Aco505]

I'm cautious on all this and will believe it when we start seeing something in 7.2.

[mallleable]

Not a ranged thread, but I honestly don't think phys ranged can wait until 8.0. They need to make decisions soon.

I don't think 'taking s a step back to how they were before' means what a lot of people are hoping. I think a lot of people would expect a specific era or expansion, but I don't think so. If they're smart about things, then they would look at every iteration of a job, and only pick 1 or 2 of the the best ideas, and refine them to work in current fight design. So like for DRG they could improve the eyes mechanic, and make jumps more 'jumpy,' and have more weight to them.