Rework Riase

[BabyYoda]

Raise is not an issue, it's an excuse. Just like party utility and everything else.

but it is an issue,

if SMN and BLM do the same damage,, why do someone play BLM?

having the strongest healer spell in the game in DPS jobs will cause a balance issue

[mallleable]

well, your suggestion is valid, but I don't think Vermedica would be enough of an identity,

Increasing summoner raise to 3 min is also a solution but raise is a raise, it will still an issue and if SMN and PCT have same damage SMN will be superior because they has a game-changing too powerful of a spell.

Instant cast raise for healer is actually healthy for the game,you can balance it by having higher cooldowns

RDM's core mechanical identity is actually Dual Cast. The job fundamentally cannot exist with out Dual Cast, but I think it can survive pretty easily with out Verraise. Vermedica would just be a simple AOE heal spell, and would have more general uses, and interacts quite nicely with Dual Cast whereas Verraise is only useful when party members have been KO'd. The clutch play would become about keeping people alive, and preventing deaths versus scraping them off the floor after the fact like how it's played now.

Here is why locking rezzes behind Phoenix might work. Phoenix would have other things it can do like deal some damage, dish out some heals, the excog, and the rezzes. By presenting so many other choices to players, the rezzes lose a lot of weight. Phoenix would also have a limited time for when you can actually use everything. Maybe you use it during down time for the heals or maybe you found some sweaty spot to squeeze out some extra damage. The ability, and SMN gets balance around the possibility of the rezzes not being used. Compared to RDM where Verraise's only use is to raise, and why I think it's a little more problematic that SMN's rez.

Heck, Phoenix rezzes could even work like re-raisers where you put a buff on someone, and they only rez if they get KO'd making it even trickier to use it as rez tool.

[Ggwppino]

Raise is not an issue, it's an excuse. Just like party utility and everything else.

in fact, if the rdm does less damage than the blm, it is mainly because
- it doesnt have 2 timers to take into account to maintain the damage
- it doesnt have procs,
- has 1.5s of slidecastable casts + dual cast + instant non positional melee combo.

It's always been like this. With an old smn that did practically the same damage as the blm even if it had raise.

[Carighan]

if SMN and BLM do the same damage,, why do someone play BLM?

They don't however, so this discussion is hypothetical and meaningless.

[BabyYoda]

RDM's core mechanical identity is actually Dual Cast. The job fundamentally cannot exist with out Dual Cast, but I think it can survive pretty easily with out Verraise. Vermedica would just be a simple AOE heal spell, and would have more general uses, and interacts quite nicely with Dual Cast whereas Verraise is only useful when party members have been KO'd. The clutch play would become about keeping people alive, and preventing deaths versus scraping them off the floor after the fact like how it's played now.

Here is why locking rezzes behind Phoenix might work. Phoenix would have other things it can do like deal some damage, dish out some heals, the excog, and the rezzes. By presenting so many other choices to players, the rezzes lose a lot of weight. Phoenix would also have a limited time for when you can actually use everything. Maybe you use it during down time for the heals or maybe you found some sweaty spot to squeeze out some extra damage. The ability, and SMN gets balance around the possibility of the rezzes not being used. Compared to RDM where Verraise's only use is to raise, and why I think it's a little more problematic that SMN's rez.

Heck, Phoenix rezzes could even work like re-raisers where you put a buff on someone, and they only rez if they get KO'd making it even trickier to use as a rez tool.

Dual cast is mechanically its core identity, and essentially RDM kit is mix between WHM and BLM.. they can take spells from both kits, but not all like Xeno from BLM and your suggestion that Raise also.

While I see that AOE healing is a great addition to RDM kit, but RDM got introduced with insta cast raise in 4.0, that was a huge mistake, people now attach raise with RDM.

the idea of summoner could give living dead buff to party is appealing NGL, but it to balance it is so hard,

like if we are imagining SMN do same damage as BLM why do someone want to play BLM?

this is the idea that I feel rezz fall apart, it is the strongest ability in the game more than Homegang and hollowed ground.

giving it free for DPS is a mistake even if it 1 time per party,

in the end we will reach to the point where SMN have lower damage than other DPS because of phenix rezz

[Exinias]

Raise is fine.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

"Raise is an identity" lolwut, since when.

SMN is about summoning things and perform actions involving summons. That box has been clearly checked and the main issue is that it is a bit too simon-says.

RDM's identities are dualcast (across almost every single iteration to my knowledge, at least older titles and Bravely), melee techs and a degree of offensive and defensive/restorative balance in the spells - in the case of FFXIV it's more about the Black Magic + White Magic balance instead.

Having "okay" heals were definitely part of every Red Mage iteration - Raise was not always existing however as depending on the game it was considered too high in spell tiers to be put in Red Mage toolkits.

Raise is not an identity, it is a tool that could be replaced easily with something else like an oGCD Vermedica, which by the way would synergize with Magick Barrier.

But if we really insist on keeping Raises, I personally would recommend looking at BLU's raise since it has a cooldown.

[Volfe]

Eh. One thing they could do is giving us some small build choices I guess. Swap between Raise or an extra damage/support skill as you want outside of duty.

Then done, you don't have to carry Raise's dead weight in easier content.

[Zakuyia]

Why do I feel like you guys gonna complain about this at some point if they do remove raise from smn and rdm

[BabyYoda]

"Raise is an identity" lolwut, since when.

SMN is about summoning things and perform actions involving summons. That box has been clearly checked and the main issue is that it is a bit too simon-says.

RDM's identities are dualcast (across almost every single iteration to my knowledge, at least older titles and Bravely), melee techs and a degree of offensive and defensive/restorative balance in the spells - in the case of FFXIV it's more about the Black Magic + White Magic balance instead.

Having "okay" heals were definitely part of every Red Mage iteration - Raise was not always existing however as depending on the game it was considered too high in spell tiers to be put in Red Mage toolkits.

Raise is not an identity, it is a tool that could be replaced easily with something else like an oGCD Vermedica, which by the way would synergize with Magick Barrier.

But if we really insist on keeping Raises, I personally would recommend looking at BLU's raise since it has a cooldown.

if we consider BLU's mage solution then it is still a raise, raise is strongest skill in RDM and SMN, they will be OP even with 60,90,120,240 or even per encounter.

if we want to have same damage as BLM and PCT then they will be a better option.

let's say RDM can have only 1 raise per encounter and they can do heals too even if it was at high cooldowns, then how much RDM can do of BLM? 80%? 90%? same damage? let's consider balance in this question

Why do I feel like you guys gonna complain about this at some point if they do remove raise from smn and rdm

but people will not complain about RDM/SMN damage no?