Job design mindset need to change

[Amvin]

To give a couple of examples, strictly in principle:-
PLD: THE mitigation tank, all about using that shield to reduce damage taken and has minimal - if any - heals.
WAR: THE heal tank, basically the reverse of the PLD, it has many heals (though maybe not quite as powerful as now) but minimal mits.
DRK: The parry all the things tank, tapping back into it's roots it seeks to maximise it's parry chance and shields what it has to while turning incoming damage into outgoing damage be that with an HP scalar or through it's gauge.
GNB: Then becomes all about evasion, I'll leave it to more creative minds to flesh it out though - I haven't ideas.

While that sounds really nice on paper, it wouldn't work in the current raid environment, unless (taking wAR as example) you buff warrior hitpoints substantially so it can survive various mechanics with only minimal mitigation.
What I'm getting at is that such changes would need to be complimented by major fight design changes and I doubt they'd do either or both.

[Alice_Rivers]

I don't see warrior as you do not gonna lie I see warrior as the berserk job so to me warrior should do more damage then any other at the cost of defense.

allow me to elaborate a tiny bit more.

warrior should do 15% more damage then any tank but take 5/10% more damage but also have 25% more HP.

question of mitigation it should be more into taking care of the defensive nerf but give a decent Regen instead or like a massive shield with a Regen but when the shield deplete it could fill a special gauge to do more damage and heal on hit.

I'm glad to have engagement from people who actually play tanks rather than (just) healing them, it is a weakness of my position. I think it's a cool idea to have WAR play that way, it would have good synergy with my SCH/SGE models.

sage to me should only know DPS move with two shield and some miti with shield I thing the move use should change the amount heal with kardia instead making it more unique and fill the role it should always have been a DPS healer

While I'd like to avoid the overlap of shields for SCH and SGE, I could see this sort of thing, maybe the reverse of what I suggested? You cast DPS and get target based AoE heal/shield/mits?

While that sounds really nice on paper, it wouldn't work in the current raid environment, unless (taking wAR as example) you buff warrior hitpoints substantially so it can survive various mechanics with only minimal mitigation.
What I'm getting at is that such changes would need to be complimented by major fight design changes and I doubt they'd do either or both.

If I come at this from the previous poster's suggestion of doing and taking more damage with an increased HP cap, maybe in place of the current big mits WAR should get big max HP abilities? Give it more HP management play? I'm not sure if these Max HP increases should fill themselves or demand the healer follow through, I understand calls for the former but being a healer I naturally lean toward giving the healer more responsibility and ensuring that tanks still attrit when left unattended.

There probably would need to be changes to fight design but then looking at the demand for that, I would like SE to be looking at that as a potential 9.0 focus.

[Taranok]

While that sounds really nice on paper, it wouldn't work in the current raid environment, unless (taking wAR as example) you buff warrior hitpoints substantially so it can survive various mechanics with only minimal mitigation.
What I'm getting at is that such changes would need to be complimented by major fight design changes and I doubt they'd do either or both.

The first instance of major homogenization in the game happened because of this exact reason. When WAR literally couldn't do Twintania because it would just get deleted by death sentence. The dev's solution was to turn WAR into PLD, and off to the races on homogenization. Second instance of homogenization being to turn all healers into white mage. Third instance is to turn all casters into phys ranged and otherwise destroying cast bars. Things like 2m burst or equal damage with similar damage buffs don't even factor into homogenization compared to completely destroying entire playstyles.

That said, you can fix the issue (for tanks) without giving WAR something like 400% the HP of paladin. But it first begins by recognizing that 20% mit is already ridiculously strong, and things like tank passive + 40% mit + 20% mit + 15% mit + another 20% mit is already insanely overpowered. Toning down the numbers and availability, especially preventing stacking of mits, would do a lot to break the chokehold that the devs have forced themselves into.

Unfortunately, fixing this issue is, as you say, basically impossible in the current fight design environment. But it's either fixing the encounter design or we end up with the fight design we have now, where casting spells is miserable, fights are DDR simulators with no lag tolerance, and every tank and healer does their primary job with basically identical buttons.

I was outright flabbergasted with how absolutely awful the new alliance and dungeon was from a design standpoint. Nevermind EX3 being more of the same nonsense that made trial 3 such an awful fight. I digress.