#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[GartredZW]

maybe it's not that great to play a turret job in a game that keeps demanding more and more mobility?

Personally, I'll put equal blame on the average pseudo-parser and the dev team.
What I mean by pseudo-parser is someone who tries to optimize as far as it's convenient, and anything that isn't convenient is a problem that the dev team have to fix.
I signed up for Black Mage when I first started playing because I wanted to be the one with long cast times and big powerful hits. I don't care if I need to not do anything for a couple seconds to move out of a mechanic. Minimizing that downtime was a lot of fun trying to master.
But then someone took the ever reliable "Always Be Casting" way too literally, and complained that certain casters weren't viable because they couldn't always be casting. They want to optimize the job, but not if it means minimizing movement time to do it. They see the lack of mobility as a bug instead of a feature.
Now, at level 100 Black Mage, in a normal 2 minute rotation without overcapping on resources, we get roughly 34 casts out of 48 GCDs instant. (this doesn't account for leylines speeding up your GCD, or saving polyglot and triplecast to use outside of this window, but you get the point.)
That's completely insane if you ask me. I also did the math for Endwalker, and it's only 21 out of 48. Still pretty high, but at the very least it's not almost three out of every four casts that you don't even need to cast on this immobile caster class.

If you're someone who says that it's not fun to play a job that needs to stand still to deal damage in a game that forces you to move sometimes, I'd suggest playing Dancer.
I know I kind of got off track of healers here, but I'm just still mad about what they've been doing to my baby this expansion.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

[...]but it feels like raid encounter design is more and more spilling over into normal dungeons, making them an unplayable mess.

Of course that's just my 5 cents, so have fun roasting me for good

Well there you have it. That's the consequences of dev's approach to shove majority of difficulty to encounters. Going down this path, what do you think will happen to the hypothetical 'hypercasuals' when they couldn't deal with... say, "Strayborough on steroid"-in their roulette? It doesn't matter what job they pick up, they'll just get eviscerated (unless if they're a tank maybe, lol).

So how about we tone that down and dial back the job gameplay difficulty so we can have both in moderation? :P

[...]If you're someone who says that it's not fun to play a job that needs to stand still to deal damage in a game that forces you to move sometimes, I'd suggest playing Dancer.
I know I kind of got off track of healers here, but I'm just still mad about what they've been doing to my baby this expansion.

This is precisely why I despise the Trashologification done to healers back in 6.0. Having to think even in E5N thunderstorm phase? Anybody remember that? Hell no we can't have that!

Looking at their recent decision to further reduce Holy cast time, they've done anything but 'adding stress' back to the gameplay, which goes against what they've stated.

[GartredZW]

Looking at their recent decision to further reduce Holy cast time, they've done anything but 'adding stress' back to the gameplay, which goes against what they've stated.

I don't know about you, but I'm stressed as hell. With the way this game is going, class design wise, the best we can hope for right now is our class not even being included in the patch notes for more than slight potency adjustments.
Maybe Machinist players have it better than we thought.

[Gwenkatsu]

The only thing I’m gonna roast you for is after 969 pages people are still coming in here...

I hope you did not expect me to read through 969 pages in this thread. To be honest, I stumbled in here by accident, and when I saw someone on the last page asking for a casual's insight, I thought that this could be my 15 minutes of fame

As mentioned, this is the inevitable end result of following the logic of 'if we make jobs less complex, we can make encounters have more complexity'

Then I got everything here wrong, maybe I really should have read through all those pages
If it tones down the overwhelming mechanical mess FF14 dungeons are becoming, I'm all for more complex classes. This is something I can handle, while the crazy lightshow some of the fights are these days is just getting too much for me. Zeromus felt like juggling seven glasses while someone shoots a laser pointer at my eyes in random intervals. Not fun. Not fun at all.

Sorry for derailing this thread with my rant about annoying dungeon mechanics.

[Tigore]

@Gwenkatsu

From the looks of it, your comments are actually way more relevant than us discussing what happened to BLM and DRG >.> I think only a few of anyone can claim to have read all 970+ pages of the thread so far. I can understand if one does not go through it since it sounds like an ordeal that would take all day or two when a person could respond faster with what's going on. I looked at the first post of the thread and I don't remember seeing that person in our conversations up in this area. The first post still looks the same even though some YouTubers are commenting about it sounding unclear. Although the discord link is intriguing. I haven't viewed it yet, but it does make me wonder if a lot of updating happened there.

An example is the post talking about the threat level being low. As we discussed here, that is the veteran side of problem and doesn't address the mechs causing too much damage to happen for a full group of new players. I have also noticed from my Savage friend that he commented about the healing quality declining a bit. The M4S group or so he was in asked the tanks to LB3 the healing check part. Some others have doubts if that means we don't know what we are talking about, but it turns out some of the veterans I knew here unsubbed from the game or are playing different roles. It may be possible that the healers asking for the tank LB3 may still need some practice with the cooldowns we have. Hard for me to say without being there and not seeing the logs of what is happening.

[ForsakenRoe]

An example is the post talking about the threat level being low. As we discussed here, that is the veteran side of problem and doesn't address the mechs causing too much damage to happen for a full group of new players. I have also noticed from my Savage friend that he commented about the healing quality declining a bit. The M4S group or so he was in asked the tanks to LB3 the healing check part. Some others have doubts if that means we don't know what we are talking about, but it turns out some of the veterans I knew here unsubbed from the game or are playing different roles. It may be possible that the healers asking for the tank LB3 may still need some practice with the cooldowns we have. Hard for me to say without being there and not seeing the logs of what is happening.

Assuming I'm thinking of the part that you're talking about, that part is more than likely supposed to be Tank LB'd, given that it is 9 or 10 hits in quick succession of around 60k damage per hit, unmitigated. Healing through it without Tank LB would require using all of your Mits, and throwing in GCD healing, all in order to use a Melee LB to skip a 'hard' mechanic later in the fight (which we can skip with gear now anyway even without that Melee LB)

[Aravell]

Assuming I'm thinking of the part that you're talking about, that part is more than likely supposed to be Tank LB'd, given that it is 9 or 10 hits in quick succession of around 60k damage per hit, unmitigated. Healing through it without Tank LB would require using all of your Mits, and throwing in GCD healing, all in order to use a Melee LB to skip a 'hard' mechanic later in the fight (which we can skip with gear now anyway even without that Melee LB)

It's 880k total at minimum gear level, so about 98k per hit at 9 hits in 8 seconds.

Tank LB lasts 10s. Its very obviously a tank LB mechanic. Just because you can dump everything to survive doesn't mean you should, because you can also dump all the mit and time a big shield right before dalamud explodes in the UCoB p3 transition yet nobody expects you to do that and calls you a bad healer for not being able to do that.

[IDontPetLalas]

Personally, I'll put equal blame on the average pseudo-parser and the dev team.
What I mean by pseudo-parser is someone who tries to optimize as far as it's convenient, and anything that isn't convenient is a problem that the dev team have to fix.
I signed up for Black Mage when I first started playing because I wanted to be the one with long cast times and big powerful hits. I don't care if I need to not do anything for a couple seconds to move out of a mechanic. Minimizing that downtime was a lot of fun trying to master.
But then someone took the ever reliable "Always Be Casting" way too literally, and complained that certain casters weren't viable because they couldn't always be casting. They want to optimize the job, but not if it means minimizing movement time to do it. They see the lack of mobility as a bug instead of a feature.
Now, at level 100 Black Mage, in a normal 2 minute rotation without overcapping on resources, we get roughly 34 casts out of 48 GCDs instant. (this doesn't account for leylines speeding up your GCD, or saving polyglot and triplecast to use outside of this window, but you get the point.)
That's completely insane if you ask me. I also did the math for Endwalker, and it's only 21 out of 48. Still pretty high, but at the very least it's not almost three out of every four casts that you don't even need to cast on this immobile caster class.

If you're someone who says that it's not fun to play a job that needs to stand still to deal damage in a game that forces you to move sometimes, I'd suggest playing Dancer.
I know I kind of got off track of healers here, but I'm just still mad about what they've been doing to my baby this expansion.

Yes, to be blunt, and since you're quoting me- I mained a BLM equivalent for more than 10 years in another game, I don't see the relevance of my DPS preferences in a healer thread, If you're going to quote one line out of context, don't be surprised if you come to the wrong conclusion.

[GartredZW]

Yes, to be blunt, and since you're quoting me- I mained a BLM equivalent for more than 10 years in another game, I don't see the relevance of my DPS preferences in a healer thread, If you're going to quote one line out of context, don't be surprised if you come to the wrong conclusion.

I didn't mean to imply all that toward you specifically. And yeah, I guess I did get off track from the fact that this is a healer thread when suggesting dancer. The rest still applies though. Some people enjoy the act of minimizing movement needed and seeing every second of the GCD not rolling as an opportunity to grow and optimize in the future.
Then you've got the kind of people saying it's "not that great" in a comment trying to excuse the loss of skill expression as something necessary for the changing fight design that are supposedly designed by the same studio at the same time as Class design is worked on.