Dark Knight Changes - Suggestion.

[Lammas]

Thread title: "Dark Knight Changes - Suggestions"
Thread contents: 7 pages of people arguing about pointless semantics

[Carighan]

Thread title: "Dark Knight Changes - Suggestions"
Thread contents: 7 pages of people arguing about pointless semantics

Well in our defense it's just one person, to the utter bewilderment of the entire tank community. :')

[AnjouMaaka]

Since the astro main who can't do anything that doesn't involve coming here to defend the no-where-near-enough design of dark knight defensives is so offended by this comment, I'm just gonna repost it. I'll gladly and humbly take one for the team if that's what it takes to get something done about dark knight defensives in dungeons. how long is the next forum ban gonna be? 3 weeks? 2 months? I don't care. You aren't canceling me or this comment

[Shurrikhan]

Since the astro main who can't do anything that doesn't involve coming here to defend the no-where-near-enough design of dark knight defensives is so offended by this comment

They've made no comment on DRK defensives outside of saying that Oblation feels lacking, only on your intentional reinventions of otherwise commonly agreed upon terminology just to actively misunderstand and argue with the OP on an utterly unnecessary point...

[AnjouMaaka]

The astro main has consistently done this behavior throughout the entirety of the tank roles forum. Anytime there's a dark knight post, there they are defending the current design of dark knight defensives despite everyone knowing how terrible it is. And, it's thanks to people like that, that we can't get anything done about it from the devs. It's thanks to people like that, that it took years to get Living Dead at least somewhat addressed in 6.2. We will never get any of the much needed changes done while players like that are allowed to come in here, spread misinformation and keeps problems suppressed from Square Enix. I had minor disagreements with the OP, but agree that the job is in a poor state defensively. The beef is between me and the lying drama queen.

[Supersnow845]

The astro main has consistently done this behavior throughout the entirety of the tank roles forum. Anytime there's a dark knight post, there they are defending the current design of dark knight defensives despite everyone knowing how terrible it is. And, it's thanks to people like that, that we can't get anything done about it from the devs. It's thanks to people like that, that it took years to get Living Dead at least somewhat addressed in 6.2. We will never get any of the much needed changes done while players like that are allowed to come in here, spread misinformation and keeps problems suppressed from Square Enix. I had minor disagreements with the OP, but agree that the job is in a poor state defensively. The beef is between me and the lying drama queen.

Because you have this weird insistence that your opinion is just objectively correct and anyone else who opposes your opinion is just wrong

I DESPISE WAR’s dungeon design whether I’m playing the WAR, the healer or even the DPS watching the poor healers role get completely pasted over by boring uninteractive overpowered CD’s

I. DO. NOT. WANT. WHAT. YOU. PROPOSE. It would ruin the only tank I still semi regularly play in normal content. Please read that, and read that again and read that again till it sinks in. You aren’t a unilateral authority here, your opinion holds just as much weight as any of us and a lot of us hate your proposed suggestion

[Shurrikhan]

The astro main has consistently done this behavior throughout the entirety of the tank roles forum. Anytime there's a dark knight post, there they are defending the current design of dark knight defensives despite everyone knowing how terrible it is. And, it's thanks to people like that, that we can't get anything done about it from the devs. It's thanks to people like that, that it took years to get Living Dead at least somewhat addressed in 6.2. We will never get any of the much needed changes done while players like that are allowed to come in here, spread misinformation and keeps problems suppressed from Square Enix. I had minor disagreements with the OP, but agree that the job is in a poor state defensively. The beef is between me and the lying drama queen.

...Comments on DRK are few and far between, and each of them critical in some way of what DRK has been left with, including across its defensives. Disagreeing with HOW you suggest DRK defensives should be changed =/= a claim that DRK is perfect as is.

The closest I've seen across the past 3 months of their posts that made any comment in the vein of "not improving" DRK defensives was in explaining why TBN shouldn't be forcibly bundled with additional eHP (in %DR form or otherwise) so long as it needs to be popped... and this explicitly labelled joke...

*the monkey paw curls*

- TBN now causes 600 potency of self-DoT over its 7s duration that is not absorbed by its shield.
- Oblation includes a 600 potency excogitation like functionality.

...which you preceded to treat as serious so you could critique it and attempt to inform others on something they'd already shown comprehension of pages earlier...

I suspect you're either making some sort of conflation between those who call out your mental gymnastics and at some point had Astrologian listed as their main class... or are trying for some pretty strong irony, especially given the last few of your words above.

______________

On topic:

Personally, I have trouble really caring about the minutia of tank abilities in their present state, but...

All for earlier access to interesting actions. For all jobs, tbh. I feel like DRK gets hit with this slightly worse than most, though and would be happy to see it be the first adjusted, especially if there were no simultaneous sweeping change to come.

Similarly, I'd be fine with allowing consolidation of whatever players want to consolidate, even if that means removing actual button traps (e.g., the ability to do anything wasteful within a particular combo / anything other than continue or fully reset it) for parity. If that reveals the actual decisions of the game to be far simpler than its button bloat would imply, so be it. Maybe we could get some actual nuance eventually, in place of said bloat.

I don't particularly want to see Salted Earth merged. If anything, I'd like to see it be a variable CD (the longer it charges, the greater its duration) capable of far greater strength. It feels pretty iconic to me, as almost an opposite or mirror to the namesake of Hallowed Ground (yes, I realize said skill does not actually hallow the ground and is instead just a generic Invincibility, but still, it fits the idea of a DRK as making its own way / giving no shits about other dogmas or whatever might be sacrosanct).

I don't want to see TBN and Oblation bundled so long as TBN itself retains the same eHP. I would, if anything, rather just choose between two different ways of spending MP, with each progressively reducing the cost of the other in addition to nullifying up to X would-be MP costs to offensive spenders based on their mitigation provided.

I will also hold the line that I find TBN more enjoyable for having a shorter CD and providing a flat barrier when said barrier can be used to nullify debuffs entirely and, of course, accentuate simultaneous %DR. I even enjoy the risk factor that comes with that (especially, the timing it to %DR), even if I might tone it down or reframe it somewhat. That said, I wouldn't mind seeing some changes that allow it to play into those unique capacities further and/or shore up its pain points a bit.

Some examples of slightly larger changes possible for TBN (e.g., beyond mere tuning):

• Generalize Dark Arts to essentially create a MP-barrier based on the portion of TBN's MP consumed, reducing the offensive potency gap between sufficient and nearly sufficient incoming damage. This would not be my preference, as I like the risk-reward component and would rather add agency around it than reduce it, but it's a decent example nonetheless.
  
  
• Allow TBN variable spending, such as by consuming 1500 to 3000 MP for a 15 to 30% HP shield, based on present supply of MP, and reduce its cooldown to 8 seconds but have it recharge only while no barrier is active. In this way, the eHP provided by TBN itself, regardless of what simultaneous %DRs it might accentuate to increase max eHP, would also scale with incoming damage AND the DRK could have more control over shield size to allow for easier breaks as necessary.
  
  
• To better seed doubled-up barriers, instead of delaying CD cooling, simply trim a certain number of seconds from the remaining CD once TBN is broken.
  
  
• Address the main pain points of purely flat barriers by slightly hybridizing TBN, such as by giving it a 20% HP barrier with 20% mitigation while active. Such would increase its independent value, especially against hits well in excess of breaking the barrier, but slightly reduces its synergy with stacked %DRs.
  
  
• Reduce the cooldown to 8 seconds flat, effectively letting MP alone draw its limitations. Not particularly recommended, as this would even more oblige virtually every between-raid-bursts MP-spending attack to be a Dark Arts addendum to TBN, but fun to think about at least.

[AnjouMaaka]

I personally think TBN is decent as is. The main pain point is that it is significantly weaker than the other short tank cooldowns. This is where completely untying it from dark arts is honestly the better option. But I have no problem with it remaining as is because the real underlying problem is that there's no self sustain at all on dark knight, especially between the level 40-90 range, and the higher your level within that range, the more heavily this is felt, especially in dungeons. Dark Mind getting the Addle treatment would be a big help in that department because how many dungeon trash mobs are there that have magic auto attacks? Not many, and certainly not enough to warrant keeping Dark Mind as a magic-only personal mitigation.

Another problem is Dark Missionary not being available in UCOB/UWU. This is such a crutch that a common running joke is that playing dark knight in these two ultimates is considered griefing the healers. It should be acquired at the same level that gnb acquires Heart of Light. I don't see anyone arguing much against this.

I completely agree that Oblation should not be combined with TBN. This will make TBN unbreakable in even more situations. I'd rather see them apply a regen to Oblation, because as is, Oblation is just a weaker Reprisal for having a shorter duration.

As for dark arts itself, I think it's completely pointless. We're down to trying to activate it once every 60s. We'd be better off without it at this point and making TBN be purely defensive.

If the astro main isn't defending the no-where-near-enough design of dark knight defensives, they are making wild suggestions that nobody would agree with. Let's be honest, that quote you pulled from them can't have come from a frame of mind that is focused on reality.

[Supersnow845]

Again the “nowhere near enough” design of DRK’s defensives is entirely your belief in DRK’s design. I happen to view WAR and PLD as the “way too much to be realistic” design

I’m not even the infamous AST main and I still say if you want people to properly engage with you you need to stop arguing like you have already won the argument and the other person is an idiot

[AnjouMaaka]

Again the “nowhere near enough” design of DRK’s defensives is entirely your belief in DRK’s design. I happen to view WAR and PLD as the “way too much to be realistic” design

I’m not even the infamous AST main and I still say if you want people to properly engage with you you need to stop arguing like you have already won the argument and the other person is an idiot

The is not my "belief" on dark knight defensives, it is widely agreed that dark knight defensives are no where near enough. But your opinion comes from a frame of mind that's not based in reality. You still refuse to ask yourself this question: "If warrior is balanced defensively, then why is dark knight lacking so much defensively?" Until you can ask yourself that question and answer it objectively, you have no ground to stand on with this topic. I go to the widely agreed upon obvious changes that SHOULD be made, but you ignore that to insult me with a personal attack by accusing me of what you yourself are guilty of the way propagandist new anchors do with the public