Tell me stories when a mentor hurt you.

[Gugnir]

If you want mentors to be taken seriously, get rid of the crown and raise the bar for becoming a mentor. Shift the in game rewards to other content to get rid of the checked out achievement farmers so only altruistic people who actually want to teach, and not use it for a status symbol will want to be a mentor. As it stands all a mentor will do is teach you bad gaming habits, and give you information you can find with a google search *IF* they interact with you at all.

[Greyhawk]

Sorry to put you on blast

Please. This is a flat out lie, or you wouldn't say this to start. Those are your exact intentions.

this is Exhibit A about why the Mentor system is extremely flawed

No, I think you have that turned around. It's not the Mentor system that's the issue. Sure, it's not a perfect system and the network is an utter disaster. But what I stated isn't a symptom, it's a result. You can't differentiate.

1. Mad they can't wear a "crown" to show they are a mentor because they get hate. Why is this a huge hindrance for helping others? You still have the "mentor" status, and having the crown does not stop you from helping others.

Further proof you missed the point entirely. When you throw out insults in attempts to justify your position, you lost your credibility. I'm not mad at all about not wearing a crown. I'm fed up with the random insults that get tossed out just because of it, and I haven't said a word. Not wearing a crown doesn't stop me from helping those who want it, and I still give tidbits of information, i.e., alternating catching the red and black orbs fighting Lahabrea. There are veterans that still don't know that in order to stop killing themselves.

2. Literally admitted to griefing their parties because some people just can't figure it out fast enough.

No, that's not it, and maybe I should have given more detail to this, but we'll see how that goes when you are just writhing to reply. This is after the 4th and 5th wipes with half the raid that's not done something before, and after more than just me explaining mechanics, they still refuse to even bother. Another example, since you want to call this griefing: Not performing the active maneuver timer in The Seat of Sacrifice. If one person doesn't click the timed maneuver, the entire raid fails. Or, balancing the scales in Aglaia, people troll the entire raid to make them fail. Which, by the way is a reportable offense, and people were suspended for that. Yet, that along with tank busters dragged into raids is still a thing happening today because the tank thinks it's funny. That's griefing; me not raising someone who does these stunts or isn't contributing at all isn't griefing. It saves me MP to be more productive.

3. Instead of figuring out the boundaries of when and when not to help someone, they give up after a wall of text explaining an alliance raid gets shot down. Maybe some people want to go in blind? Maybe some people won't listen all the time? Sometimes you are gonna get shot down for advice. Take the hit and move on.

Instead of the players just telling, "STFU you piece of trash" and "STFU we don't need that git gud lol" and other things just because I am explaining a fight as quickly as possible, they can instead just give a simple, "Hey, can we go in this without help, and we can ask if we get in trouble?" is perfectly acceptable and I've received that ONE TIME in Copied Factory. Nowhere else, no other time. And, I was glad to oblige them. And, no to the other poster above you - there were no sounds going off in a macro. It was a quick and simple explanation in a macro designed to be short as possible while giving an overview of events per boss.

So yeah, keep believing the mentor program is the 'problem', please. It solidifies what I've already said.

[Jeeqbit]

If you want mentors to be taken seriously, get rid of the crown

Then how will sprouts recognize them? In other games with such a system I recognize veteran players by some form of icon or visible accolade that makes it fairly obvious they've played a long time.

Shift the in game rewards to other content to get rid of the checked out achievement farmers so only altruistic people who actually want to teach

I got sick of this argument, so I actually asked lots of mentors both in the game and on the forums if they did it for the mount... and the answer was no. Any that were, weren't seriously expecting to get the mount and didn't see it as something they'd likely reach in any foreseeable timeframe. Many mentors didn't even unlock Mentor Roulette (because unlocking it isn't actually required to be a battle mentor).

As it stands all a mentor will do is teach you bad gaming habits

That's trying to stereotype players. Every player is different and some will give good advice and others bad. Also, the idea of the novice network is that where a mentor may give mistaken advice on one subject, the collective wisdom of the other mentors will help steer them in the right direction. So if one person's advice isn't good, the other people that answer will probably be good.

give you information you can find with a google search *IF* they interact with you at all.

A lot of people say that googling gives them outdated, conflicting or confusing answers ie. reddit is often outdated due to changes that happened to the game since, wikis aren't always immediately updated (some articles take years to be revisited), or the information they find is for a subject that uses similar terminology in the game (for example, what if you searched for Titan help with MSQ and it came up with E4 or UWU? lots of cases like that when googling FFXIV stuff).

Sprouts that tried to google often say they appreciate that a veteran player was just able to explain it directly, understanding the context of what they want to know, and any changes that have happened in recent patches that affect it, which aren't necessarily reflected on google results.

[TomsYoungerBro]

Please. This is a flat out lie, or you wouldn't say this to start. Those are your exact intentions.

My intention is to show why the mentor system is extremely flawed. Your post was just the perfect example to use, thus why I said "Sorry for putting you on blast".

No, I think you have that turned around. It's not the Mentor system that's the issue. Sure, it's not a perfect system and the network is an utter disaster. But what I stated isn't a symptom, it's a result. You can't differentiate.

The mentor system is very much flawed, and i've already stated why in previous comments on this thread alone.

Further proof you missed the point entirely. When you throw out insults in attempts to justify your position, you lost your credibility. I'm not mad at all about not wearing a crown. I'm fed up with the random insults that get tossed out just because of it, and I haven't said a word. snip

You are literally admitting to being mad lol.

No, that's not it, and maybe I should have given more detail to this, but we'll see how that goes when you are just writhing to reply. This is after the 4th and 5th wipes with half the raid that's not done something before, and after more than just me explaining mechanics, they still refuse to even bother. Another example, since you want to call this griefing: Not performing the active maneuver timer in The Seat of Sacrifice. If one person doesn't click the timed maneuver, the entire raid fails. Or, balancing the scales in Aglaia, people troll the entire raid to make them fail. Which, by the way is a reportable offense, and people were suspended for that. snip

For those trolling, there is the report option. "Don't even attempt to getting out of mechanics at all" is not trolling or griefing. That is not SoS actions or trolling scales. You are backpedaling.

Instead of the players just telling, "STFU you piece of trash" and "STFU we don't need that git gud lol" and other things just because I am explaining a fight as quickly as possible, they can instead just give a simple, "Hey, can we go in this without help, and we can ask if we get in trouble?" is perfectly acceptable and I've received that ONE TIME in Copied Factory. snip

So yeah, keep believing the mentor program is the 'problem', please. It solidifies what I've already said.

I honestly doubt someone was that toxic to you, and if they were, that is just a simple report. The GMs are very good at punishing toxicity in the chat. Move on.

[Gullis]

I think a lot of the dislikes comes because of mentors who starts aggressively spewing information nobody asked for. Some people actually do enjoy figuring out stuff themselves.
as for the mentor system itself, I think it's kinda bad. the requirements are a joke, so being a mentor doesn't really mean anything. For many and myself included, it's mostly just about farming for the mount, because what else is there to do.

With that said, I still do help out whenever I que into mentor rolo, and i'll try to help people as best I can, if people ask for it.

[Avoidy]

Sucks that people are gonna be like that, but on the other hand don't wear the crown if you don't want the weight of it. I was in the novice network as a mentor for about a year back in Shadowbringers. The amount of pompous, incorrect blowhards I met in there were so many that I didn't renew my crown in endwalker and walked away from the entire thing because I didn't want to be associated with any of it anymore. The crown is heavy? Just toggle it off.

[Valence]

What do you want mentor requirements be? Clear ultimates?

[Avoidy]

What do you want mentor requirements be? Clear ultimates?

I think if our goal is to get people who are interested in helping others, then just "clearing hard content" shouldn't be the metric. Most people I know who do the harder stuff stick with their insulated group and hate the idea of being weighed down by some player who doesn't know what they're doing. You can be amazing at this game and still be a terrible mentor just by lacking the patience or the empathy to help a new person out, or hell, a team of new people who're total strangers trying to clear some synced ARR content when they know nothing about the game.

This'll sound radical, but I think the icon should be ditched entirely, along with the requirements to join. Make it a purely volunteer position that anyone can join, with no crown and no visible icon to lord over others. No prestige that can be seen by others. Maybe access to a novice network, but have it be moderated tight. If you use it to just talk about your boring personal life, or you spoil msq content or act like a dick, you're out. Anyone who's not in it to help others grow will say "why am I even in this thing?" and leave. You'll lose a lot of the blowhards who just want the crown. In return, you'll gain people who are just looking to help out and have the time and the willingness to do so. People might ask how to vet for competency in a system like this, but right now under the current system, we get soooo many people who join up, wear the crown, and don't know jack. Hell, if we only took in raiders, ... I mean jfc, the amount of times I've joined PF for harder things and the people in it didn't even know what Arm's Length was. Like, we can have a conversation about competency, but that's a hard thing to gauge no matter how many barriers you throw in there. And if you just make the requirement a savage/ult clear, then you'll get PF clogged by crown-wanting dumbasses begging for a clear-for-one just like they're currently begging for these ex clears of old content.

idk though. tldr just take away the "prestige" and remove the ego/requirements/weird benefits. People with good intentions will follow. There might be less of them but they'll at least be in it for the right reasons, I think.

[Greyhawk]

You are literally admitting to being mad lol.

I'm literally not mad at all. It means that I am tired of it, not mad about anything. You're really reaching with that one.
Just like what I said, I can also be 'fed up' with trying to talk to you about this. All you're doing at this point is just picking a fight and not even interested in the flip side of things or hearing anything than the sound of your own voice.

So, we can agree to disagree and leave it at that, because it's not going to matter what anyone says to you here.

[Jonsky]

I'm fed up with the random insults that get tossed out just because of it, and I haven't said a word.

It's all personal experience, I've never had any comments/insults thrown my way.

i.e., alternating catching the red and black orbs fighting Lahabrea.

Oh! That's the Crystalis, where you're fighting against Nabriales.

There are veterans that still don't know that in order to stop killing themselves.

Could be that other people are not catching them so they feel like since nobody else will then they have to sacrifice themselves.

This is after the 4th and 5th wipes with half the raid that's not done something before, and after more than just me explaining mechanics, they still refuse to even bother.

Sounds like you should save yourself any further stress and just leave in this situation if you feel like you're being ignored by the party.

Another example, since you want to call this griefing: Not performing the active maneuver timer in The Seat of Sacrifice. If one person doesn't click the timed maneuver, the entire raid fails.

This is false. If you fail the manoeuvre then you personally die. When I was a newbie I would be clicking that circle and it was a struggle to keep that bar filled up so I have to expect that some people will be doing the same. It's better to just spam keyboard keys, basically nullifies the difficulty of them.

Edit:

Source

Well, it would appear my memory failed me. The fact check is appreciated.

Or, balancing the scales in Aglaia, people troll the entire raid to make them fail. Which, by the way is a reportable offense, and people were suspended for that. Yet, that along with tank busters dragged into raids is still a thing happening today because the tank thinks it's funny. That's griefing;

Yes, this is griefing, after the incoming wipe ask whichever party they belong to to initiate a dismissal vote. If it fails then your only proper recourse is to try again or leave.

me not raising someone who does these stunts or isn't contributing at all isn't griefing. It saves me MP to be more productive.

You are griefing by doing this. Regardless of the circumstance, it's lethargic play. Your only proper recourse is to dismiss the problem player, keep trying, or leave.

Instead of the players just telling, "STFU you piece of trash" and "STFU we don't need that git gud lol" and other things just because I am explaining a fight as quickly as possible, they can instead just give a simple, "Hey, can we go in this without help, and we can ask if we get in trouble?" is perfectly acceptable and I've received that ONE TIME in Copied Factory. Nowhere else, no other time. And, I was glad to oblige them.

I understand that your quotes there are more paraphrasing than actual in-the-moment quotes but I would be surprised if others in the duty were not perturbed by those comments. Regarding the "can we go in this without help" quote, I do apologise for probing a bit here, did they say this when you were in the middle of explaining something or was it as soon as the duty started?

And, no to the other poster above you - there were no sounds going off in a macro. It was a quick and simple explanation in a macro designed to be short as possible while giving an overview of events per boss.

The "other poster" has a name, you know.