Giving up

[Supersnow845]

It says your world is Midgardsormr, which is part of the Aether DC (same as Gilgamesh where I'm on). Last week at prime time there were ~150 parties in the High-End duty section of the PF. There's a ton of people doing it via PF.

How many of those 150 parties actually filled. That’s their entire point

You can have 1500 active parties it doesn’t matter if all are a PCT, 2 random melees and maybe a tank waiting to fill for 4 hours before disbanding

[Striker44]

How many of those 150 parties actually filled. That’s their entire point

You can have 1500 active parties it doesn’t matter if all are a PCT, 2 random melees and maybe a tank waiting to fill for 4 hours before disbanding

If the parties were all like 1 or 2 people looking to put together an entire group (as you mention), that would mean something. But it's not. We posted around about it here in the "Healer strike" thread and noted how most of the groups were only looking for 1 or 2 people (typically either a Tank, a Healer, or interestingly a Tank+DPS). When the large majority of those PF groups are just missing one person, that's a ton of people still interested in doing PF. That is the entire point. But way to create a strawman scenario - it says the underlying attempt at a point isn't valid.

Source? Because that retention, when we know barely antyhing about that and only SE has the data seems like wishful thinking at best. Especially when anyone can go to steamcharts and find that the average population right now is below/equal to the one we can find during EW patch lull, let alone how this is happening when we are not even one full patch into the expansion which is quite telling.

Source for what? The %'s are based on the Steam charts that, as you mentioned, anyone can view...

Also, remember that EW dropped in the middle of the "WoW Exodus," so the pure population #'s for the beginning of EW and its first patch cycle or so are inflated with people who were never likely to stick around that long, anyway. A better comparison will be around the time we hit the .2 patch and comparing it to the similar EW numbers, since by then the "WoW Exodus" had run its course.

Considering he is one of the very few white knights still left on this forum, he made it up.

Nice ad hominem . Meanwhile, the person you even responded to pointed out the source in their own comment...*shakes head in disbelief*

Nah, he didn't make them up. They're just old and outdated now. Like this game.

How are they outdated? Seriously, like - basic logic here. How is using the current data #'s and comparing them to the equivalent data #'s for the past two expansions "old"? *Shakes head even more profoundly*

[WaxSw]

Source for what? The %'s are based on the Steam charts that, as you mentioned, anyone can view...

Also, remember that EW dropped in the middle of the "WoW Exodus," so the pure population #'s for the beginning of EW and its first patch cycle or so are inflated with people who were never likely to stick around that long, anyway. A better comparison will be around the time we hit the .2 patch and comparing it to the similar EW numbers, since by then the "WoW Exodus" had run its course.

As other person has pointed out, you are extrapolating retention from population data which is a misuse of the data presented, as we do not know how many accounts are new, how many are on the free trial (which wasnt as extensive as it is now) and how many are returners. We can only analyze the population by numbers and the feedback out of the steam data out of which so far we can see 3 things:

-DT has less average population than EW on the same span of time
-XIV population growth seem to have stopped for the time being
-DT is so far the expansion with the worst reception (this in both steam score and metacritics user score)

If we want to analyze retention we could do some analysis like luckybancho does, tracking based on how many people finish MSQ from patch to patch but we are too early into the xpac to see that kind of analysis and even that one is flawed, hence why I ask for a source, because so far, outside SE exclusive data there doesn't seem any kind of proper analysis from which we can see the retention.

On a side note trying to say that the people who leave silently are insignificant is... naive to say the least. That is a lesson that the devs had to learn when salvaging the disaster the version 1.0 was:



Those silent are the first to leave and many may not come back if changes are not introduced.

[Havenchild]

As other person has pointed out, you are extrapolating retention from population data which is a misuse of the data presented, as we do not know how many accounts are new, how many are on the free trial (which wasnt as extensive as it is now) and how many are returners. We can only analyze the population by numbers and the feedback out of the steam data out of which so far we can see 3 things:

-DT has less average population than EW on the same span of time
-XIV population growth seem to have stopped for the time being
-DT is so far the expansion with the worst reception (this in both steam score and metacritics user score)

If we want to analyze retention we could do some analysis like luckybancho does, tracking based on how many people finish MSQ from patch to patch but we are too early into the xpac to see that kind of analysis and even that one is flawed, hence why I ask for a source, because so far, outside SE exclusive data there doesn't seem any kind of proper analysis from which we can see the retention.

On a side note trying to say that the people who leave silently are insignificant is... naive to say the least. That is a not introduced.

So based on your comment, we can only analyze and accept data that reinforces a negative bias about the game during DT.

What about the fact that DT had the highest raid clear for week 1 of all XIV? Like 3x more? Does that not prove that more people not only completed the MSQ within 2 weeks (pre -raid) but also stayed to complete the raid tier? You can say more people cleared faster due to an "easier raid" but its way higher than previous "first" tiers still meaning that far more players jumped into the raiding scene for DT than ever before which in turn reflects more players are in-game than before.

Also the irony of your comment is that you say other data is flawed yet you site steamcharts numbers as definitive numbers when a heavy majority of the playerbase is not on the steam platform. That means that steam data is inherently flawed as well.

[Supersnow845]

So based on your comment, we can only analyze and accept data that reinforces a negative bias about the game during DT.

What about the fact that DT had the highest raid clear for week 1 of all XIV? Like 3x more? Does that not prove that more people not only completed the MSQ within 2 weeks (pre -raid) but also stayed to complete the raid tier? You can say more people cleared faster due to an "easier raid" but its way higher than previous "first" tiers still meaning that far more players jumped into the raiding scene for DT than ever before.

Also the irony of your comment is that other data is flawed yet you site steamcharts numbers as definitive numbers when a heavy majority of the playerbase is not on the steam platform. That means that steam data is inherently flawed as well.

That data is just as meaningless as any other data

“We made the raid tier super easy hoping on DPS checks then blew them up trying to rebalance PCT”

Isn’t a strong indication retention is high either

Not saying WaxSw’s data should be taken as gospel either but a super easy tier being highly cleared is not indicative of anything

[WaxSw]

So based on your comment, we can only analyze and accept data that reinforces a negative bias about the game during DT.

We can only accept the only data we have, plain and simple.

What about the fact that DT had the highest raid clear for week 1 of all XIV? Like 3x more?

What about the fact that this tier was so undertuned that even the producer talked about it? maybe, just maybe, an easier tier with low dps checks and lack of body checks makes progression faster. (Also EW first tier was loaded with queue issues that didn't allow many to prog week 1)

Does that not prove that more people not only completed the MSQ within 2 weeks (pre -raid) but also stayed to complete the raid tier?

No because to clear you not only need to stay but also meet the requirements for prog (do the mechanics, meet the dps check), if you lower those requirements of course more people will clear. If you want to see how many people finished the msq, there are titles for that, how many people stay clearing the tier, there are titles for that but so far we don't have any analysis that shows the number of that

You can say more people cleared faster due to an "easier raid" but its way higher than previous "first" tiers

Even Yoshi-P himself commented on this. This tier, was undertuned and there is no denying that.

steamcharts numbers as definitive numbers when a heavy majority of the playerbase is not on the steam platform

I know that XIV white knights are dense but:



Steamcharts data is the only data we have so far, XIV discussion online and the user analysis on different platforms (metacritic, steam...) is all we have to see the reception. Is as simple as that and if it doesn't paint the picture of everything going fine and the game being perfect... I'm sorry but it is what it is.

[Striker44]

As other person has pointed out, you are extrapolating retention from population data which is a misuse of the data presented, as we do not know how many accounts are new, how many are on the free trial (which wasnt as extensive as it is now) and how many are returners. We can only analyze the population by numbers and the feedback out of the steam data out of which so far we can see 3 things:

We don't know those things for any period of time, so it's still the best comparison we can make. It's all largely irrelevant, since they're all active players, anyway.

-DT has less average population than EW on the same span of time
-XIV population growth seem to have stopped for the time being
-DT is so far the expansion with the worst reception (this in both steam score and metacritics user score)

So, wait...using the numbers from Steam is "misusing" them because we don't know certain things about them...so...let's use the Steam data? You literally just claimed it's unreliable, then immediately tried to cite it yourself...

By the way, your "analysis" here completely ignores the explanation for it - the infamous "WoW Exodus." Look at how the Steam chart skyrocketed in the couple months leading up to EW (when the "Exodus" occurred). That's why DT's population is "lower" right now - because it was artificially inflated during EW at this point in its lifespan.

If you want a better comparison, look at the Steam numbers comparing DT to ShB, where it's about 50% higher at similar points, or go back to the ARR-SB era, where DT is about 3-4x larger.

Steam score and metacritic are relatively worthless and easily subject to review bombing. Consider that 2 months into EW, Steam logins had dropped 57% (and EW has a 92% metacritic rating), while DT has only dropped 52% (virtually the same as ShB, which is widely considered the "best" expansion).

If we want to analyze retention we could do some analysis like luckybancho does, tracking based on how many people finish MSQ from patch to patch but we are too early into the xpac to see that kind of analysis and even that one is flawed, hence why I ask for a source, because so far, outside SE exclusive data there doesn't seem any kind of proper analysis from which we can see the retention.

I'm very confused why you're asking for a "source" while quoting and using that very source yourself...

So based on your comment, we can only analyze and accept data that reinforces a negative bias about the game during DT.

Didn't you know that's how things work around here? You're only allowed to be negative. Inject rational thoughts or the idea of liking the game at your own risk!

[WaxSw]

We don't know those things for any period of time, so it's still the best comparison we can make. It's all largely irrelevant, since they're all active players, anyway.
So, wait...using the numbers from Steam is "misusing" them because we don't know certain things about them...so...let's use the Steam data? You literally just claimed it's unreliable, then immediately tried to cite it yourself...

They can be pretty much inactive players (not engage in activities), free trials (so no active for DT), returners (active for a brief period) or new player. Retention means that players come back and we do not know the accounts that are playing which is why I say what I say

Steamcharts is unreliable to show anything but pure, raw, population numbers. If you use them to gauge something like retention you are misusing it.

By the way, your "analysis" here completely ignores the explanation for it - the infamous "WoW Exodus." Look at how the Steam chart skyrocketed in the couple months leading up to EW (when the "Exodus" occurred). That's why DT's population is "lower" right now - because it was artificially inflated during EW at this point in its lifespan.

Yes, but I did not pick the 2 months after xpac release, it was you. The WoW exodus however ended shortly after 6.0 and even now the data shows less/equal population in the last 30 days (or september) than the average during patch lull.

Steam score and metacritic are relatively worthless and easily subject to review bombing. Consider that 2 months into EW, Steam logins had dropped 57% (and EW has a 92% metacritic rating), while DT has only dropped 52% (virtually the same as ShB, which is widely considered the "best" expansion).

You need to buy the product to post a score on steam and someone already took the time to analyze the bad reviews on steam (The analysis). XIV does not show signs of getting review bombed, just having bad reception.

This also goes in line with comments of yoshi-p saying how he expected the players to not like wuk lamat.

I'm very confused why you're asking for a "source" while quoting and using that very source yourself...

Because steamcharts can't be used for retention, yet you used it. I ask for the source because your analysis so far is based on the wrong data.

Didn't you know that's how things work around here? You're only allowed to be negative. Inject rational thoughts or the idea of liking the game at your own risk!

Yes, god forbid we ask for the game to reach its full potential, much better to just accept what it is and defend the multi billion company that doesn't give a f... about us.