Fine, Bloodwhetting is too OP

[Terhix]

WoW and XIV can be compared but we shouldn't forget despite sharing similarities, they're apples and oranges.

You can absolutely compare the fact that having had a similar problem, nerfing not one but all tanks, and not once but twice, not only hasn't lead to a massive exodus of players that Anjou alluded, but the expansions ended up being massively popular.

[Carighan]

It’s more towards tanks heal more in WOW but the boss belts them with far far more damage

In general, fights in WoW dish out significantly more damage. To a degree that to players who did not compare it themselves from a healer or tank perspective might be difficult to fathom.

To put it in FFXIV terms, imagine if you had to ~constantly use your GCD-based healing kit on top of all the oGCDs, simply because the boss dealt 25%-30% of a tank's health per auto-attack and did so quickly, plus hit 1-2 people in the group for 30%-50% of their HP about every second GCD or so. That's not a perfect translation, but it should give you an idea of how WoW healing and damage tanking feels.

It's no wonder that WoW by comparison does not have the problem of tanks and healers both being just different coloured types of DPS where their non-DPS functions have become shoved into oGCD weaves and trivialized via passives and automatic effects. It has some other problems as a result of this difference, but a lack of use for your tanking or healing kit really isn't one. Aye.

[CKNovel]

You can absolutely compare the fact that having had a similar problem, nerfing not one but all tanks, and not once but twice, not only hasn't lead to a massive exodus of players that Anjou alluded, but the expansions ended up being massively popular.

Yes, but is it the case here? I don't think so.
Even Post nerf, WoW tanks sustain is still way above what XIV tanks can do.
The nerf was around 50% of their sustain on most abilities. This should give you a hint about how broken it truly was.

I'll repeat but healers have other responsibilities and more heal to do to protect the party as a whole.
WoW tanks can still keep themselves up, they only require healing when there's a spike of damage.

Here's a bonus to back it up, I know Supersnow will absolutely love it.
Guardian druid solo tanking endgame content with no healers at +11 difficulty, as far as I know it's just a challenge to go above +10.

[Supersnow845]

Being able to do a mythic 11 key with no healer after tank sustain got nerfed twice is not the “don’t nerf tank sustain in 14 argument” you think it is

[bp_isa_ff]

Personally, I'd say the only change needed is to make Nascent Flash only heal the target and not yourself. You're still able to make good use as OT, but doing so as MT would have real consequences. Saying this as the WAR from those ever-vexing WAR no healer dungeon runs.
Tanks being able to self sustain is fine, even if it's highly potent. If anything, DRK / GNB should be uplifted rather than PLD / WAR brought down.
However, spreading that healing to allies *at no compromise to their own* is what encroaches on the healer role.

[Rithy255]

Personally, I'd say the only change needed is to make Nascent Flash only heal the target and not yourself. You're still able to make good use as OT, but doing so as MT would have real consequences. Saying this as the WAR from those ever-vexing WAR no healer dungeon runs.
Tanks being able to self sustain is fine, even if it's highly potent. If anything, DRK / GNB should be uplifted rather than PLD / WAR brought down.
However, spreading that healing to allies *at no compromise to their own* is what encroaches on the healer role.

I fully agree with this nascent healing both feels really odd, most likely because of how Shadowbringers warrior worked.

Though I think gunbreaker is perfectly fine sustain wise, you only really see PLD that much ahead of it because of veil.

[CKNovel]

Being able to do a mythic 11 key with no healer after tank sustain got nerfed twice is not the “don’t nerf tank sustain in 14 argument” you think it is

It’s more towards tanks heal more in WOW but the boss belts them with far far more damage

If the WOW tanks heal twice as much but the boss does 4 times as much damage that’s the same as our tanks getting their healing nerfed by 50%

It's to contradict that misinformation you tried to spread.
People here try to use the WoW tank sustain nerf as if it used to be on the same level to XIV while avoiding how broken it truly was.

[AnjouMaaka]

FFXIV's Warrior wouldn't last a single trash pull in a WoW dungeon. The type of self healing it does only works in FFXIV thanks to the content design. As I've stated before, the way to go about it is to overcome the job design with content design, something Square Enix achieves very well with savage and ultimate, but not so well in dungeons.

Most players sub for the new story stuff, and then unsub until the next major patch. These players don't frequent the forums and they outnumber raiders 10 to 1. The minimum ilvl for dungeons is like way less than the previous expansion's best in slot, because these players only take whatever dungeon gear they get and don't even know better gear exists. If Square Enix overcame the job design in dungeons, these players would be unable to contribute to the party, much less figure out why they can't make progress, which would frustrate them and make them just give up. The way to break away from this state that dungeons are in is to stop tying the dungeons to the story. That would free up the devs to make the dungeons more challenging, and also more rewarding.

When you see a warrior go full immortal in dungeons, it's because they are using their cooldowns correctly AND extremely overgeared. If you were to play the job at minimum ilvl in the dungeon, which I've seen plenty of warriors who do, it's a much different story, and even a well seasoned veteran playing warrior in that state has to pretty much blow everything just to pull wall to wall. The dungeon balance is centered around doing the dungeon at the minimum ilvl. Which is something many players take for granted, as was made obvious via Dawntrail's dungeon design (those birds in the 97 dungeon hit like a truck, even when overgeared).

[Supersnow845]

It's to contradict that misinformation you tried to spread.
People here try to use the WoW tank sustain nerf as if it used to be on the same level to XIV while avoiding how broken it truly was.

Those two claims don’t contradict, WOW hits for more which justifies a higher sustain level. Is WOW’s sustain still too high……arguable. Is WOW’s sustain better balanced because the tanks take more damage……yes

And the only reason the sustain nerf was bought up was because Anjou doomed about a sustain nerf leading the population of 14 to collapse. Which WOW’s sustain nerf directly refutes

[Carighan]

Or to get to the root of the issue - and also fix Dark Knight imbalance in one fell swoop - remove the lvl82 upgrades for PLD, WAR and GNB short CDs, mostly.

That is, keep only one functionality, and it's not damage reduction, rather it's some way of healing:

* Warriors heal per hit dealt.
* Paladins apply a HoT.
* Gunbreakers heal on falling low on HP (or on expire, though I'd honestly half this healing!).
* Dark Knights only gain a shield, but in return it's quite strong, on a shorter CD, but costs mana, but makes an attack free of cost.

This feels far more balanced than what we currently have, where DRK has exactly that, but everyone else has 1356345234 things bolted onto their short CDs just because the devs like 50-60 lines long tooltips.