Fine, Bloodwhetting is too OP

[Rithy255]

Personally, I'd say the only change needed is to make Nascent Flash only heal the target and not yourself. You're still able to make good use as OT, but doing so as MT would have real consequences. Saying this as the WAR from those ever-vexing WAR no healer dungeon runs.
Tanks being able to self sustain is fine, even if it's highly potent. If anything, DRK / GNB should be uplifted rather than PLD / WAR brought down.
However, spreading that healing to allies *at no compromise to their own* is what encroaches on the healer role.

I fully agree with this nascent healing both feels really odd, most likely because of how Shadowbringers warrior worked.

Though I think gunbreaker is perfectly fine sustain wise, you only really see PLD that much ahead of it because of veil.

[Carighan]

Or to get to the root of the issue - and also fix Dark Knight imbalance in one fell swoop - remove the lvl82 upgrades for PLD, WAR and GNB short CDs, mostly.

That is, keep only one functionality, and it's not damage reduction, rather it's some way of healing:

* Warriors heal per hit dealt.
* Paladins apply a HoT.
* Gunbreakers heal on falling low on HP (or on expire, though I'd honestly half this healing!).
* Dark Knights only gain a shield, but in return it's quite strong, on a shorter CD, but costs mana, but makes an attack free of cost.

This feels far more balanced than what we currently have, where DRK has exactly that, but everyone else has 1356345234 things bolted onto their short CDs just because the devs like 50-60 lines long tooltips.

[CKNovel]

Yes, you're actively avoiding that I point out you're comparing apple and oranges.

That's what I'm criticizing and you try your best to avoid it.
I'm not arguing about an hypothetical scenario wether people would leave the game or not.
I'm merely pointing out the differences between the WoW Tank situation and the XIV Tank situation.

You're actively dodging it because you know your argument falls flat, exodus or not.
Who's doing gymnastics here? Because that's a crazy amount of rolling you're doing here.

[Supersnow845]

Yes, you're actively avoiding that I point out you're comparing apple and oranges.

That's what I'm criticizing and you try your best to avoid it.
I'm not arguing about an hypothetical scenario wether people would leave the game or not.
I'm merely pointing out the differences between the WoW Tank situation and the XIV Tank situation.

You're actively dodging it because you know your argument falls flat, exodus or not.
Who's doing gymnastics here? Because that's a crazy amount of rolling you're doing here.

No we get that, what we are saying is that point alone isn’t an argument either way in the original discussion you added yourself to.

If you have a stance on Anjou’s point (or the wider issue) then you need to explain why “apples to oranges” backs up your point in any way because right now you aren’t even making a point

[CKNovel]

No we get that, what we are saying is that point alone isn’t an argument either way in the original discussion you added yourself to.

If you have a stance on Anjou’s point (or the wider issue) then you need to explain why “apples to oranges” backs up your point in any way because right now you aren’t even making a point

Cool, I don't have anything to had on Anjou's point and never had. Only wanted to put thing back in context of the WoW tank status and XIV tank status.
Only adding information then Terhix has been arguing that the two events "are similar".

You already know my stance, I've defending that even if your nerf Bloodwhetting it wouldn't change a thing tank or healer wise.
On top of that it's pointless to argue about an hypothetical scenario.

[Supersnow845]

Cool, I don't have anything to had on Anjou's point and never had. Only wanted to put thing back in context of the WoW tank status and XIV tank status.
Only adding information then Terhix has been arguing that the two events "are similar".

You already know my stance, I've defending that even if your nerf Bloodwhetting it wouldn't change a thing tank or healer wise.
On top of that it's pointless to argue about an hypothetical scenario.

Okay let’s try this again

If your point is that nerfing BW won’t actually improve anyone’s situation in the game and only lead to negatives because in your eyes it makes tanks less fun while not making healers any more fun (which multiple healer mains have stated isn’t the case as a nerf to BW would improve their time playing with a WAR) then how does the WOW situation in any way support your point given it hasn’t led to a reduction in playerbase in WOW and was positively received by healers

Following this given you mentioned apples to oranges as a means of saying the WOW situation is different what is it about the WOW situation that makes it different? If we were to implement the same style of nerfs as the WOW devs did in their explanation of why they did them then why would that lead to a different result than what it did in WOW?

This is what you aren’t explaining

[CKNovel]

The answer is very simple.
In WoW you could do this and after the nerfs you can't anymore.
In XIV that would just make the sustain from good to be impactful enough to worthless in content that matters but still makes healers mad in dungeon and maps.

Honestly, if you want to prove me wrong it's very simple.
You go in Ktisis Hyperboreia or Vanaspati, dungeons that can't be overgeared synchronized level and solo and you solo the instance while doing as much pulling as possible and without dying once.
It should be possible and you shouldn't die even once, right? You're not pulling as much as in the video correct? So it should be a braindeadbreeze, yes?

Record footage of yourself doing that on Warrior, prove me wrong.

[Carighan]

Honestly, if you want to prove me wrong it's very simple.
You go in Ktisis Hyperboreia or Vanaspati, dungeons that can't be overgeared synchronized level and solo and you solo the instance while doing as much pulling as possible and without dying once.

Why would this showcase that it's not an issue?

And why would failure to do so automatically mean that nerfing Bloodwhetting is the wrong call?

As in, can you provide an actual argument? Or are you just randomly making things up to try avoid having to admit you're wrong? Which you're still doing, btw.

[Kabooa]

Why would this showcase that it's not an issue?

And why would failure to do so automatically mean that nerfing Bloodwhetting is the wrong call?

As in, can you provide an actual argument? Or are you just randomly making things up to try avoid having to admit you're wrong? Which you're still doing, btw.

You have to understand they no longer have any intent of arguing in good faith, if they ever did before.

This is why they are saddling you with some many requirements and extra curricular activity while they do nothing themselves.

Ignore them and move on.

[CKNovel]

Why would this showcase that it's not an issue?

And why would failure to do so automatically mean that nerfing Bloodwhetting is the wrong call?

As in, can you provide an actual argument? Or are you just randomly making things up to try avoid having to admit you're wrong? Which you're still doing, btw.

I'm giving you a way to convince me.
Take it or leave it, isn't Bloodwhetting supposed to be overpowered and breaking the game and Warrior replacing the healer?
Is it a dishonnest deal to give you what would convince me?

I've seen wrong claim saying Warrior could do the same if XIV would let Warriors pull the entire dungeon, they're free to showcase it to me.

You have to understand they no longer have any intent of arguing in good faith, if they ever did before.

I had good faith before.
Then I got tired of all the false claims, manipulations, ignoring my proof&data and other fallacies and decided to let go and just go apeshit.
Sorry for those reading my crap, to the others who still believe tank sustain is unbalanced, they're free to provide me the footage I'm asking for.