Fine, Bloodwhetting is too OP

[Carighan]

If BW's shield is a heal then The Blackest Night is a heal as well, which makes no sense.

Understanding how mitigations, healing, absorbs and bladeturns and so on can be calculated as EHP isn't exactly rocket science. Sorry if it doesn't make sense to you.

[CKNovel]

I specifically didn’t go after shields and mits. The shield on BW is fine. Guardians problem is the fact that it’s a 1000 potency shield AND a 40% mitigation. Do you understand how strong 40% mitigation is. Great nebula is functionally not any better but PLD is also naturally tankier than GNB

I know it's strong, I'm just pointing out you said, and I quote you:
"(it’s basically a second invuln)"

Yes, 40% + 1K shield is strong but nowhere near a second invuln.
Just don't call it an invuln.

Understanding how mitigations, healing, absorbs and bladeturns and so on can be calculated as EHP isn't exactly rocket science. Sorry if it doesn't make sense to you.

It's true mitigation and active healing are both actors on the HP Economy but they're different actors.
If anything that plays a part on HP is a healing then dodging AoE is healing, gear's defense is healing, kiting is healing, killing the boss faster is healing.
And I'm not going to debate a meme.

[Lyth]

Healing shouldn't really be calculated as eHP, because effective health is the amount of damage you can take before dying without healing, by definition. The classical case where eHP is used is in tankbuster design, because a heal isn't going to influence whether you survive a oneshot. Flat damage reduction, percentage damage reduction, and max HP boosts are all fair game though.

There really isn't a problem with tanks having powerful personal mitigation tools, because predicting incoming personal damage to survive is exactly what tanks do. However, invulns are a problem, because they're much too accessible and often end up simplifying/bypassing proper swap technique. I would rather they just opted for a higher tier (i.e. 60-80% DR) of mitigation tools to replace the current invulns.

I can agree that the current state of tank self-sustain is excessive, but anticipating single-target damage patterns and mitigating them to survive is definitely well within the realm of tanking.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

[...]There really isn't a problem with tanks having powerful personal mitigation tools, because predicting incoming personal damage to survive is exactly what tanks do. However, invulns are a problem, because they're much too accessible and often end up simplifying/bypassing proper swap technique. I would rather they just opted for a higher tier (i.e. 60-80% DR) of mitigation tools to replace the current invulns[...]

Probably a hot take: invulns should be a niche, not one of the standard cooldown. Say, let PLD keep their HG and delete the other 3 tank's invulns in exchange for something that's not 'an invuln'.

[Lyth]

In fairness, if you wanted insight into the playerbase's distaste around watching a WAR player solo a boss in current content while everyone else watches, WL provides an excellent case study of this. I think even the people who managed to find something likeable about her character cringed at that moment.

The biggest risk impact will be on new players, because they're the ones most likely to die and be forced to sit around while a WAR solos fights in casual content over a course of 20 minutes. If SE wants to keep that cohort of players, the answer is pretty obvious. They might as well forget about their 'Hall of the Intermediate' and reworks of old content. You aren't keeping those players.

[AnjouMaaka]

In fairness, if you wanted insight into the playerbase's distaste around watching a WAR player solo a boss in current content while everyone else watches, WL provides an excellent case study of this. I think even the people who managed to find something likeable about her character cringed at that moment.

The biggest risk impact will be on new players, because they're the ones most likely to die and be forced to sit around while a WAR solos fights in casual content over a course of 20 minutes. If SE wants to keep that cohort of players, the answer is pretty obvious. They might as well forget about their 'Hall of the Intermediate' and reworks of old content. You aren't keeping those players.

The good thing is that these Hall of the Novice upgrades are an extra learning tool. There will now be no excuse for not knowing how to do stack/spread mechanics. Looks like it will even teach what a tankbuster is. The big downside is that Hall of the Novice is not mandatory for character progression, and the 30% xp accessory only helps below level 30, so there's no real incentive for players to do it.

[Alice_Rivers]

I wouldn't celebrate the tankbuster thing, tankbuster damage is a joke, if you want people to learn about tankbusters then tankbusters need to be a credible threat.

[Carighan]

I wouldn't celebrate the tankbuster thing, tankbuster damage is a joke, if you want people to learn about tankbusters then tankbusters need to be a credible threat.

Yeah nowadays they usually fall only into two categories:

1. Did you withhold at least 1 of your CDs for this instead of using it to decrease incoming damage? Ideally 2, but 1 works.
2. Have you put Provoke on your hotbar for a quick tankswap or are you a Warrior and can just invuln each instance because your invuln CD is too low?

They've become too formulaic. Every so often we see something semi-clever, like a 15s+ DoT that kills you if you also got the debuff from the second hit, so even if you invuln you die a few seconds later. But with autoattack damage being ignorable already (since bosses rarely have time to AA) and tankbusters being just a "did you withhold CDs"-check, it's just... boring.

If nothing else, I want tankbusters to be unreliable! Any AA has a small chance to be "upgraded" to a simple big hit with a short cast bar, meanwhile there is a PPM-limitation for how frequently this can happen so that if nothing else, the OT can always grab the boss and use their timers (cast selects target at the end, as it just applies a short buff making the next AA be a big hit).

[Supersnow845]

Yeah nowadays they usually fall only into two categories:

1. Did you withhold at least 1 of your CDs for this instead of using it to decrease incoming damage? Ideally 2, but 1 works.
2. Have you put Provoke on your hotbar for a quick tankswap or are you a Warrior and can just invuln each instance because your invuln CD is too low?

They've become too formulaic. Every so often we see something semi-clever, like a 15s+ DoT that kills you if you also got the debuff from the second hit, so even if you invuln you die a few seconds later. But with autoattack damage being ignorable already (since bosses rarely have time to AA) and tankbusters being just a "did you withhold CDs"-check, it's just... boring.

If nothing else, I want tankbusters to be unreliable! Any AA has a small chance to be "upgraded" to a simple big hit with a short cast bar, meanwhile there is a PPM-limitation for how frequently this can happen so that if nothing else, the OT can always grab the boss and use their timers (cast selects target at the end, as it just applies a short buff making the next AA be a big hit).

Alternatively they could just return crit autos and actually make autos dangerous

Anyone remember when a boss like kefka had a mit plan that went down to the GCD rather than down to per “event every 30 seconds”

[Carighan]

Oh true, or that. Which in turn would even open up more balancing knobs: Some tanks could be better at getting crit less or for less, but in return take more damage baseline.