You can make everyone happy--- if you actrually try

[Angeldust]

You can remove all healing from tanks and still they will not devise an encounter with significant enough damage that will require such a kit. The last time we got something like that was in Alexander Gordias and that hurt the raid scene severely. Mind you that was with a more infantile kit.



I'll give you specific things that all interlock.

Reconcile the following:

1) People saying Healer should have a more robust DPS rotation.
2) People saying Healers should have more healing opportunities.
3) People liking current Healer design.
4) People not liking the responsibility of Healers in savage encounters currently(generally in PF) and bulking at more responsibility ala option 1/2.
5) Increasing the amount of people queing up as Healer in PF.

okay first way to solve this

sage-scholar should have bigger dps rotations
while ast and white mage should have more healer chances with encounters with less dps ability and honestly remove regen completely make them run off buffing and healing only, there you go....
3. People like current design add another healer that follows the current design they can just play that one.

there are 4 healer jobs and 3 times in your example no reason we couldnt cover all 3 with diffrent healers.
4. doesn't matter here tbh they dont like it in savage while others do like it solves itself

5. describe what you see as the proplem here, people have an issue with how many healers in it or not enough

The healer solution is you give all 3 exacly what they wish for in one or two of the healer jobs we have 4 and you listed three groupings

Than what you're doing making pointless post on a forum? Go and fill out an application on the developing team. With your seft-proclaimed talent they may even let you succeed Yoshi one day.

because devolpment requires art skills and coding knowledge not just simple logic and reasoning skills lol If i could draw better than stick man that looks like he carrying a shoe i would lol


that is one of the most stupid things anyone could say I'm not questioning the code or the artwork it has nothing to do with simple problem-solving skills lol a dev either needs artistic skills for the game or the ability to code in c+ or w/e coding system this game uses that doesnt mean players are incorrect just because we dont code or do art work when it comes to issues that are PROPLEM SOLVING not development side lol


and noone is going to hire someone who looks at all the problems and thoughts people have to find a solution with problem solving skills for those who have the coding skill to implement lol people should, but they arent since that skill is under valued in well almost field in this world expect science fields lol

They really should have 2-3 people going through everything both on dev side and player side information look at the issues of why people arent happy and find a solution with everything we have in the game and find a solution to please as many parties as possible and it can be done with basic problem-solving skills and experimentation over time.


There are solutions to make nearly everyone pleased all you have to do is put out survys collect data and have people working on proplem solving skills and when i say data i MEAN DATA ON EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE not just japanese side or dev side or selective groupings.


everything has a solution to please every party even if that means segregating into groupings

[Azurarok]

okay first way to solve this

sage-scholar should have bigger dps rotations
while ast and white mage should have more healer chances with encounters with less dps ability and honestly remove regen completely make them run off buffing and healing only, there you go....
3. People like current design add another healer that follows the current design they can just play that one.

there are 4 healer jobs and 3 times in your example no reason we couldnt cover all 3 with diffrent healers.
4. doesn't matter here tbh they dont like it in savage while others do like it solves itself

5. describe what you see as the proplem here, people have an issue with how many healers in it or not enough

The healer solution is you give all 3 exacly what they wish for in one or two of the healer jobs we have 4 and you listed three groupings

To make the two barrier healers be the ones with bigger dps kits they'll first need to get rid of the pure/barrier healer split since SGE stands as the 'simpler' job of the two. I think that's really as simple as returning Diurnal/Nocturnal Sect to AST. This should also give WHM a lot more breathing room too since they won't have to compete with AST for the pure healer slot in PF.

Diurnal AST's a regen healer to emphasize the time mage aspect of the job as well as giving it more spare time to do the card work it used to have (which they should return and put DT's card system on a new potion mixing job imo), so I don't see the need to remove them at all.

WHM can stand to be the 'simpler' healer like now if they have significantly better recovery tools than the others. Add an instant cast effect on Thin Air, shorten the CD on Benediction, maybe even give it a Reraise.

[Supersnow845]

You can remove all healing from tanks and still they will not devise an encounter with significant enough damage that will require such a kit. The last time we got something like that was in Alexander Gordias and that hurt the raid scene severely. Mind you that was with a more infantile kit.



I'll give you specific things that all interlock.

Reconcile the following:

1) People saying Healer should have a more robust DPS rotation.
2) People saying Healers should have more healing opportunities.
3) People liking current Healer design.
4) People not liking the responsibility of Healers in savage encounters currently(generally in PF) and bulking at more responsibility ala option 1/2.
5) Increasing the amount of people queing up as Healer in PF.

The problem with this logic is acting like there is any sort of attempt at appeasement for anyone besides their incredibly narrow view of the healers. We have 4 healers why are they 4 shades of exactly the same class who never get a moment to shine anyway because of tank and they never try to up the damage or try anything else

This links back to what I believe OP was trying to say but kinda missed the mark. Square designs in an incredible narrow field and then throws their hands up when it isn’t universally praised and gives up

No matter how small you think that group is the group who hates modern healers exists, when was the last time they got a single shred of appeasement across any of the 4 healers

[Angeldust]

To make the two barrier healers be the ones with bigger dps kits they'll first need to get rid of the pure/barrier healer split since SGE stands as the 'simpler' job of the two. I think that's really as simple as returning Diurnal/Nocturnal Sect to AST. This should also give WHM a lot more breathing room too since they won't have to compete with AST for the pure healer slot in PF.

Diurnal AST's a regen healer to emphasize the time mage aspect of the job as well as giving it more spare time to do the card work it used to have (which they should return and put DT's card system on a new potion mixing job imo), so I don't see the need to remove them at all.

WHM can stand to be the 'simpler' healer like now if they have significantly better recovery tools than the others. Add an instant cast effect on Thin Air, shorten the CD on Benediction, maybe even give it a Reraise.

which they should have gotton rid of the pure barrier and regen system years ago honestly, its okay to have regens and barriers on healers however that shouldnt be the entire setting of a healer

[CidHeiral]

For any solution you provide to make everyone happy there will be someone who feels the opposite way, thus proving you can't make everyone happy.

[Angeldust]

For any solution you provide to make everyone happy there will be someone who feels the opposite way, thus proving you can't make everyone happy.

I guess its a good thing 50 different things can all have different solutions...

You can do it it just requires more work to do so, if the next set arent happy with xyz or abc then we create next solution of efg. Not everything will require even reaching the efg stage at all while maitaning eaching grouping without stealing from others we can create happy and joy for the next grouping

[Havenchild]

okay first way to solve this

sage-scholar should have bigger dps rotations
while ast and white mage should have more healer chances with encounters with less dps ability and honestly remove regen completely make them run off buffing and healing only, there you go....
3. People like current design add another healer that follows the current design they can just play that one.

there are 4 healer jobs and 3 times in your example no reason we couldnt cover all 3 with diffrent healers.
4. doesn't matter here tbh they dont like it in savage while others do like it solves itself

5. describe what you see as the proplem here, people have an issue with how many healers in it or not enough

The healer solution is you give all 3 exacly what they wish for in one or two of the healer jobs we have 4 and you listed three groupings

You didn't really do anything about 4 / 5 much less acknowledge the balancing issues that exist with your solutions. If you have some Healers do more DPS than the others, you indirectly create issues around Healer DPS contributions and raise the expectancy of that, while also forcing devs to build encounters around it meaning that those falling behind will have more issues doing the content on Healer role. There is also a gameplay loop issue with your solutions, they likely can't design encounters around "healing" with an immense amount of damage going out consistently, meaning that people would still get bored on "pure healers".

4) Refers to casual Healers in PF that play it on and off depending on how the "hard" any given tier is. They do not want to have to heal more or do more DPS. This group technically is similar to group 3. These people tend to play the role as an off job.

5) Refers to the fact that we do not have enough Healers in PF currently to meet the amount of parties doing raid content. We need more Healers in PF.

[Supersnow845]

You didn't really do anything about 4 / 5 much less acknowledge the balancing issues that exist with your solutions. If you have some Healers do more DPS than the others, you indirectly create issues around Healer DPS contributions and raise the expectancy of that, while also forcing devs to build encounters around it meaning that those falling behind will have more issues doing the content on Healer role. There is also a gameplay loop issue with your solutions, they likely can't design encounters around "healing" with an immense amount of damage going out consistently, meaning that people would still get bored on "pure healers".

4) Refers to casual Healers in PF that play it on and off depending on how the "hard" any given tier is. They do not want to have to heal more or do more DPS. This group technically is similar to group 3. These people tend to play the role as an off job.

5) Refers to the fact that we do not have enough Healers in PF currently to meet the amount of parties doing raid content. We need more Healers in PF.

And you have still yet to explain how 5 is solved by trying to push DPS to heal when doing that for the last 6 years has only shrunk the healer population

I don’t want to open old agro but seriously this circles back to that old argument from a month ago or so where you seem to believe that “continuing to do what is contracting the healer population will randomly make it expand one day if we keep doing it”. There is zero evidence from the last 6 years that designing healing for people who don’t want to play healer will make them swap to healer and make the healing population healthy. All it does is piss off the actual healers

[Aravell]

It's unlikely that they can make everyone happy, BUT they can make a fairly large portion of the playerbase happy.

We have 21 jobs, 4 tanks, 4 healers, 6 melee, 4 casters and 3 phys ranged. There's no reason they can't vastly diversify the jobs within each role to cater to a different type of player, numbers can be tweaked, but gameplay is what engages the player foremost, not what kind of numbers they put out.

There's no reason for tanks to be 4 flavours of the same thing.

There's no reason for healers to be 4 flavours of the same thing.

Casters and phys ranged show that they can make jobs that play differently within the role, why can't they diversify the support roles too?

[CidHeiral]

I guess its a good thing 50 different things can all have different solutions...

You can do it it just requires more work to do so, if the next set arent happy with xyz or abc then we create next solution of efg. Not everything will require even reaching the efg stage at all while maitaning eaching grouping without stealing from others we can create happy and joy for the next grouping