Random Cards Were The Only Reason AST Felt Good/Different

[IDontPetLalas]

Thinking about this, I would put my thoughts on current Astro cards like this?

* I like the idea behind randomization affecting the cards.
* Every single implementation of it so far has been disappointing, lame, laughable or ridiculous.
* Hence, the current non-random system is by far the best version yet, even if on paper I dislike it. Unlike all the other attempts, this one actually works, so it wins by default.

I would prefer at least 2 of the prior versions of AST to this version. What would you see as being "lame, laughable or ridiculous" in the prior versions, considering that they were functional as well. I'm not ignoring that SE had to put in a hotfix on at least one occasion.

So I would definitely prefer Stormblood, or Shadowbringers. You're really saying that DT wins out over these because they fall into one or more of the "disappointing, lame, laughable or ridiculous categories?

[Ramiee]

Wouldn't that feel kinda shit because each time you have a 50% chance to win vs a 50% chance to get a dud?

Damage wouldnt matter that would be 50/50 there'd be more utility cards and to draw from and redraw would exist still, rng still exists but you get a damage buff and a utility every 30 or so seconds and have to adapt, restoring cards being utility and not making the balance fishing a thing again.

[Lorika]

I would prefer at least 2 of the prior versions of AST to this version. What would you see as being "lame, laughable or ridiculous" in the prior versions, considering that they were functional as well. I'm not ignoring that SE had to put in a hotfix on at least one occasion.

So I would definitely prefer Stormblood, or Shadowbringers. You're really saying that DT wins out over these because they fall into one or more of the "disappointing, lame, laughable or ridiculous categories?

No RNG = win by default.
Now, i would prefer a mix of the new version with some old version.

Drawing only one card but with no RNG and giving the buff to the entire party.
I don't know how to explain it in english.... but i will try.

Just keep the actual cards with the two different set, but drawing only one of the card (putting all the others on CD) and when you play it, it buff all the party.
When the 3 cards of the current set are played, you can switch to the next set.

[LynxDubh]

I still think it would of been better to just had two different cards per draw and have them randomised. One for damage one for utility/healing.

I could see this working.

Damage:
Balance-Damage dealt buff 6% Melee/Tank, 3% Ranged/Healer

Arrow-Damage dealt buff 6% Ranged/Healer, 3% Melee/Tank

Spear-Crit chance 5/10%

Utility:
Bole-Damage taken reduction 10%

Ewer-Healing over time

Spire-Healing action recovery buff 10%

And then keep the minor arcana as is but make them random. Or separate them again and make them switch like it does now with Astral/Umbral, then you could use them more tactically.

[Sylvain]

I could see this working.

Damage:
Balance-Damage dealt buff 6% Melee/Tank, 3% Ranged/Healer

Arrow-Damage dealt buff 6% Ranged/Healer, 3% Melee/Tank

Spear-Crit chance 5/10%

Utility:
Bole-Damage taken reduction 10%

Ewer-Healing over time

Spire-Healing action recovery buff 10%

And then keep the minor arcana as is but make them random. Or separate them again and make them switch like it does now with Astral/Umbral, then you could use them more tactically.

Assuming no change in drawing options, it would mean that the draw of Arrow/Bole would result in a 50% chance for you to get a DPS cards, which means undesirable outcome half the time.
If we were to chance the system to a 2 buttons, so one drawing Balance/Arrow/Spear and the other Bole/Ewer/Spire then we're kind of back to where we started but actually worse.
You get the same about of damaging cards and your utility also became RNG thus unreliable and useless.

[Carighan]

So I would definitely prefer Stormblood, or Shadowbringers. You're really saying that DT wins out over these because they fall into one or more of the "disappointing, lame, laughable or ridiculous categories?

Stormblood was just fishing for damage cards. There was no interactivity with it, if you wanted to be optimal, you either successfully fished for damage cards, or you got a better-luck-next-time ticket.

Shadowbringers was the same but in much less impactful (since you always got 3 damage cards, the only randomized loss of potential was on yourself) and hence even more annoying since the effect even of a bad draw was downright trivial given how low healer DPS was even back in ShB (compared to now in DT I mean).

Basically why I mind both of these systems: Only DPS matters. I enjoy randomness in some regards, but not if it's between a "win" and a "lose" in a slow-cycling situation. If I automatically got a card every second GCD and each was a 50/50 between a damage card and a dud card, it wouldn't matter. If I got a damage card each time and a random utility card, then sure, that's fantastic in fact. It's also remarkably close in most functional regards to what we have now, which hints at why I think the current system works so well.

Assuming no change in drawing options, it would mean that the draw of Arrow/Bole would result in a 50% chance for you to get a DPS cards, which means undesirable outcome half the time.
If we were to chance the system to a 2 buttons, so one drawing Balance/Arrow/Spear and the other Bole/Ewer/Spire then we're kind of back to where we started but actually worse.
You get the same about of damaging cards and your utility also became RNG thus unreliable and useless.

Agreed. If those are random draws between damage and utility that's just a win-vs-dud setup again. Even if we had Redraw, that just means 75% win vs 25% dud. Same underlying problem though. And if it's the second option then like you say, it's like a strictly inferior version of what we have now.

[Titania40]

My thoughts on the matter is that I'm glad that the randomness was removed. I absolutely didn't like playing AST because the cards were too random and confusing on how to use. I'd have to stop and check the tool tip for every single card as it's drawn just to see what it does and who to use it on. And with so many different options it could be, I was struggling to recognize them at a glance. With the current system, I have already gotten to the point where at a glance I know exactly what cards I have, and how to use them. Took a bit to get to that point, but I was able to reach it.

As for Astrodyne, I had it for a bit before DT went live. And honestly... I wasn't particularly impressed by it.

[PercibelTheren]

Wouldn't that feel kinda shit because each time you have a 50% chance to win vs a 50% chance to get a dud?

This is where you give the players ways to manipulate the RNG like burning a card to boost the power of the next one and such. With the current system, the vast majority of your cards are duds because you really don't need another small OGCD heal, not on AST that is already weirdly really good at single target healing.

[PercibelTheren]

My thoughts on the matter is that I'm glad that the randomness was removed. I absolutely didn't like playing AST because the cards were too random and confusing on how to use. I'd have to stop and check the tool tip for every single card as it's drawn just to see what it does and who to use it on.

How? They were literally two different colors. You didn't need to know each card, at least not in Endwalker.

[IDontPetLalas]

My thoughts on the matter is that I'm glad that the randomness was removed. I absolutely didn't like playing AST because the cards were too random and confusing on how to use. I'd have to stop and check the tool tip for every single card as it's drawn just to see what it does and who to use it on. And with so many different options it could be, I was struggling to recognize them at a glance. With the current system, I have already gotten to the point where at a glance I know exactly what cards I have, and how to use them. Took a bit to get to that point, but I was able to reach it.

As for Astrodyne, I had it for a bit before DT went live. And honestly... I wasn't particularly impressed by it.

So, the very first time I picked up SGE- on release- the UI was horrid. I hated the skill names, and most of the skills were the same colour. I then spent around 20 minutes re-arranging skills (once I calmed down) as I noticed that it virtually a copy-paste of scholar. I still think the UI could be better, but I adapted.

All of this to say , that there is a difference between someone who mains an AST, and knows the cards because they play them regularly- for example I didn't need to memorize who to use it on (ranged or melee) since they were colour-coded- even at its more complex, someone who mained AST probably was more comfortable with the cards than someone who just picked it up once in a while to level it, or because they wanted to try it. Which was fine with me - why not have a healer that required more knowledge, or more experience in order to feel comfortable with it?

Otherwise, if we go down the road of all jobs being "accessible"- then we end up with the viper situation - a couple of weeks in Square decides for you that your job is too "busy".