Picto makes the game less fun

[Ramiee]

And frankly I know it's gonna make people laugh but you don't even need ultimates to already see what the math and experience shows, and what you can already see in dungeons when it comes to downtime. Ultimates have rarely been very well balanced. For instance, DSR was an absolute joke of balance back then between jobs, and they didn't bother adjusting for it.

TOP also being cleared in the same patch it released in without healers with zero adjustments also goes to show that ultimates really don't mean much at all anymore. God I wish blue mage ultimates became a thing so some actual interesting job actions can come out of ultimates.

[Sequora]

The real issue is that we just have way too many motifs, and a good option could be to cut them down back to no charges each, but that would remove a big part of the job's flexibility. On the other hand, a lot of other jobs don't have that luxury and have had to content with not drifting important GCDs. Still, redistribute the potency all across the board without making the motifs an actual damage loss, and remove 1 charge from the creature one would be a good start in my opinion.

And frankly I know it's gonna make people laugh but you don't even need ultimates to already see what the math and experience shows, and what you can already see in dungeons when it comes to downtime. Ultimates have rarely been very well balanced. For instance, DSR was an absolute joke of balance back then between jobs, and they didn't bother adjusting for it.

I worst decision the balance team could make would be to add clunkiness to the job. Removing charges? Really?

Many jobs from the ARR honestly need at least medium sized reworks.

We shouldn’t be making well designed jobs feel worse because old jobs are janky after several expansions worth of additions.

[Loggos]

I’m not opposed to nerfing some aspects of PCT (though absolutely not changing how the motifs work) but people are way too quick to act like PCT is the entire cause of the reason why this tier is so terribly balanced when it’s only a minor contributor

Seconding this. I would be very disappointed if they changed how motifs currently work and/or cut their number down. Managing them, their spenders and building paint inbetween while preparing everything for your burst is what makes this job so fun to play. It's the job that makes me feel the most engaged in terms of actual thinking/planning (even if it's just a little).

I do absolutely not want the gameplay to be simplified or streamlined or any of that.

(And in terms of job fantasy it does feel a little like "prepping" all your tool and colours
meticulously for your painting which I think is a neat little bonus.)

Motifs needing a target makes no sense to me tbh. The whole point of them is preparation before you actually attack. Why should you need to target an enemy to execute a target-unrelated skill when you are not actually attacking them. What makes motifs interesting is finding the right moment to commit to their long cast time in preparation of a future attack.

I can live with nerfs to numbers but I also agree with Supersnow, picto is not the core of the problem and changing it won't really fix the underlying issues other jobs have.
You'd put a bandaid on a bullet hole so to speak.

The problem is that a rigid 2 minute meta actively counters true job variety. If you try to make jobs unique then some will inevitably not fit the strict meta mold and lose out.

I'd rather prefer a system where you can approach casting from two different angles without one style being so blatantly favoured by the meta mold. I love that BLM does not have a strict burst window but in picto's case it's the whole burst and the extensive build-up that I love and don't want to miss.

Naturally you'll never be able to balance jobs perfectly and some will always have a (small) edge but flat damage profiles and burst-reliant profiles should not be (dis)advantaged over each other in principle/across the board due to meta restrictions.

[Sequora]

Seconding this. I would be very disappointed if they changed how motifs currently work and/or cut their number down. Managing them, their spenders and building paint inbetween while preparing everything for your burst is what makes this job so fun to play. It's the job that makes me feel the most engaged in terms of actual thinking/planning (even if it's just a little).

I do absolutely not want the gameplay to be simplified or streamlined or any of that.

(And in terms of job fantasy it does feel a little like "prepping" all your tool and colours
meticulously for your painting which I think is a neat little bonus.)

Motifs needing a target makes no sense to me tbh. The whole point of them is preparation before you actually attack. Why should you need to target an enemy to execute a target-unrelated skill when you are not actually attacking them. What makes motifs interesting is finding the right moment to commit to their long cast time in preparation of a future attack.

I can live with nerfs to numbers but I also agree with Supersnow, picto is not the core of the problem and changing it won't really fix the underlying issues other jobs have.
You'd put a bandaid on a bullet hole so to speak.

The problem is that a rigid 2 minute meta actively counters true job variety. If you try to make jobs unique then some will inevitably not fit the strict meta mold and lose out.

I'd rather prefer a system where you can approach casting from two different angles without one style being so blatantly favoured by the meta mold. I love that BLM does not have a strict burst window but in picto's case it's the whole burst and the extensive build-up that I love and don't want to miss.

Naturally you'll never be able to balance jobs perfectly and some will always have a (small) edge but flat damage profiles and burst-reliant profiles should not be (dis)advantaged over each other in principle/across the board due to meta restrictions.

I just find it fascinating that someone doesn’t like the fact that their main job isn’t fun for them this expansion, and rather than fix the issues with said job, they would rather make a new job that many people are enjoying less fun to play.

[Ramiee]

I just find it fascinating that someone doesn’t like the fact that their main job isn’t fun for them this expansion, and rather than fix the issues with said job, they would rather make a new job that many people are enjoying less fun to play.

Its understandable because Endwalker and Dawntrail have had the worst job design in the series for two expansions in a row, so when PCT comes out and its by far the most interesting and fun new job we have got in the game since like SAM people get annoyed that its also performing far better than any other job (because the raid buff meta is broken) and demand it to be dragged down. Its simply crab mentality and I used to do it too, when SCH/BRD was ruined in SHB I wanted SGE/DNC to become the worst job in the game because I hated what happened to my main jobs, it was a bad mindset and even though its happened twice again for me (SMN/BLM) I have learnt to just move on and not grow attached to jobs.

[bp_isa_ff]

Honestly, I have tried since launch to wrap my head around the balance decisions regarding this Job, and I simply cannot. Was the intention to phase out Black Mage altogether?

The damage output for Pictomancer is comparable to what EW non-standard Black Mage rotations would be doing, if they had survived into Dawntrail. So, my personal theory is that PCT was balanced around non-standard BLM first, then they decided later in production that they would remove / heavily nerf non-standard (and either overlooked the need to give PCT a compensating nerf, or didn't realise just how damaging the BLM nerf was)

[Lyth]

As for the suggestion of motifs need a target that’s simply a point of “1 ultimates every 2 years doesn’t justify destroying the best received job since SB”, if you are going to nerf PCT that’s absolutely the last thing you should do because not everyone wants their favourite job destroyed to balance an ultimate

PCT's advantage is definitely not limited to Ultimates.

If you're referencing downtime intermissions, we have those in Savage fights as well. P8SP2 was a particularly extreme example. The fight was essentially alternating burst windows with a targetless HC 1 and 2, culminating in a potion burst under Everburn that doubled your damage. And even when you factor that type of fight design effect out of the equation, we can still see very clearly that PCT is obviously dominating this tier.

The reason why they keep adding new jobs to the game is to attract new players and give them more variety to choose from. Having a single job dominate a role and have its own dedicated role slot runs completely contrary to this. Telling players that they need to play PCT if they want to be a caster main is not good design. You're always going to get backlash for rebalancing an overpowered job. You've seen for yourself how much pushback there is around toning back WAR's self-healing currently. But what you're doing here is no different. Protecting your turf sometimes runs contrary to what's good for the game.

What SE needs to recognize is that this type of pushback will go away instantly once they just do their job and balance the game. FoTM players don't have loyalty to any job, so they'll just switch anyways the advantage is gone and the resistance will vanish. The real risk is pushing away players who are really attached to a specific job design aesthetic, which is why variety is so important. SE can continue to cater specifically to PCT if they want, but only if they're also prepared to continue to lose players.

[Supersnow845]

Which is my point, you’ve basically described situations where they have enforced a 2 minute meta by alternating downtime with burst phases, the “uptime” is never filler in these types of situations. PCT can further benefit from this because it gains free potency from targetless downtime but this type of design is always going to benefit jobs that run on CD’s rather than gauge generation and will always benefit burst profiles more heavily. Remember when BLM needed non standard just to even be half viable in EW ultimates because it’s flat damage profile was useless

Like you can nerf PCT but that doesn’t change the fact that the current design just so overwhelmingly benefits burst jobs and constrains design and retrofitting wonky bursts to non bursting jobs like with RDM just makes the jobs feel bad to fit a meta they weren’t designed around

[Valence]

I just find it fascinating that someone doesn’t like the fact that their main job isn’t fun for them this expansion, and rather than fix the issues with said job, they would rather make a new job that many people are enjoying less fun to play.

If you mean literally changing the job's gameplay, definitely. If however you just mean readjusting the damage output (a simple nerf), I'd retort that some people need to get a reality check if the fun they get out of a job is being ahead of every other.

[PercibelTheren]

I just find it fascinating that someone doesn’t like the fact that their main job isn’t fun for them this expansion, and rather than fix the issues with said job, they would rather make a new job that many people are enjoying less fun to play.

I don't want PCT to be less fun but I've developed a fear of "fixing the issues". Most Dawntrail changes to jobs are absolutely baffling and make the jobs worse to play. I understand BLM players being annoyed that PCT is the new favourite child now.