What to manage as a tank?

[CKNovel]

You're the other account of Tunda, correct?

I encourage you to look beyond the title of the videos and to understand what's going on.
I'll even give you a hint with the timestamp:

Look at what is happening and what players are doing to dodge a healer mechanic.
Ironically, this clear was done because every player, especially tanks, overmanaged their responsibility.

On top of that, those clears have been done by that singular group and they already did "No healer all summoners" before tank sustain got a buff, which proves tank sustain wasn't the culprit.

[Supersnow845]

You're the other account of Tunda, correct?

I encourage you to look beyond the title of the videos and to understand what's going on.
I'll even give you a hint with the timestamp:

Look at what is happening and what players are doing to dodge a healer mechanic.
Ironically, this clear was done because every player, especially tanks, overmanaged their responsibility.

On top of that, those clears have been done by that singular group and they already did "No healer all summoners" before tank sustain got a buff, which proves tank sustain wasn't the culprit.

Why are healers only “needed” in a fight because of a single mechanic (THEY COULDNT EVEN CODE RIGHT ILL ADD) that’s meant to be a healer check rather than actually making a healer necessary across the entire fight

I can’t imagine tanks would be happy if the boss ignored them for 15 minutes then did one mechanic that amounted to a tank check then went back to ignoring them for another 5 minutes

It’s an ultimate, if you don’t have a healer you should be wiping within 20 seconds without a healer

(Note I’m not trying to argue with you on past grievances, this is actually a “why should this be considered acceptable” question)

[CKNovel]

“why should this be considered acceptable”

It's actually very easy to answer.
Mario 64 was completed without jumping, yet it doesn't mean jumping is useless. I can safely say that 99.9% of the players will use the jump.
The same way, you can go from west coast to east coast of US with a bike instead of a car. Does it means cars are useless and it's unnacceptable?
Pokemon yellow can be completed under 2 minutes. Does that mean the game is too short and the state is unacceptable?
No, it's just possible and that's what those people wanted to prove.

99.9% of the groups have healers because it's much more comfortable than rely on a tank, even if healerless run are possible.
You're looking too much into it, it's just a dumb challenge. If you just remove Clemency, a healer GCD, those challenges suddenly becomes impossible.

Wether Clemency should be removed or not is another debate.
You could do it and 99.9% of the game would remain fine but at the same time you'd be killing job identity because those 0.1% challenge are possible.

[Supersnow845]

It's actually very easy to answer.
Mario 64 was completed without jumping, yet it doesn't mean jumping is useless. I can safely say that 99.9% of the players will use the jump.
The same way, you can go from west coast to east coast of US with a bike instead of a car. Does it means cars are useless and it's unnacceptable?
Pokemon yellow can be completed under 2 minutes. Does that mean the game is too short and the state is unacceptable?
No, it's just possible and that's what those people wanted to prove.

99.9% of the groups have healers because it's much more comfortable than rely on a tank, even if healerless run are possible.
You're looking too much into it, it's just a dumb challenge. If you just remove Clemency, a healer GCD, those challenges suddenly becomes impossible.

Wether Clemency should be removed or not is another debate.
You could do it and 99.9% of the game would remain fine but at the same time you'd be killing job identity because those 0.1% challenge are possible.

Okay then next question. Do you think it feels good that your job is a “convenience” and not a need? Because to me it doesn’t. The fact that every time we get a new fight someone is able to do this shows there is a problem they won’t address. I want to be tested to the limits of my kit, not be tested on my 1 GCD spam uptime

If there is no tank the boss wallops the party in 20 seconds, if there is no DPS then the boss enrages 2 minutes in if not earlier to an add mechanic like dolls.

Being the role in a hard trinity that amounts to “you are only there because people aren’t good enough to get rid of you” doesn’t feel good when you want to feel powerful and feel like you meaningfully contributed to the party which is a big difference to comparing biking and driving across America because if you are good enough to dump the healer then your performance actually improves as shown with the M4 clear

AND ITS SO EASY TO FIX, just double the amount of raidwides or have bleeds that apply that can’t be mitigated and last a long time

Being a role of convenience (and in casual content it’s more being an enforced burden in DF) doesn’t feel good

[BabyYoda]

Okay then next question. Do you think it feels good that your job is a “convenience” and not a need? Because to me it doesn’t. The fact that every time we get a new fight someone is able to do this shows there is a problem they won’t address. I want to be tested to the limits of my kit, not be tested on my 1 GCD spam uptime

If there is no tank the boss wallops the party in 20 seconds, if there is no DPS then the boss enrages 2 minutes in if not earlier to an add mechanic like dolls.

Being the role in a hard trinity that amounts to “you are only there because people aren’t good enough to get rid of you” doesn’t feel good when you want to feel powerful and feel like you meaningfully contributed to the party which is a big difference to comparing biking and driving across America because if you are good enough to dump the healer then your performance actually improves as shown with the M4 clear

AND ITS SO EASY TO FIX, just double the amount of raidwides or have bleeds that apply that can’t be mitigated and last a long time

Being a role of convenience (and in casual content it’s more being an enforced burden in DF) doesn’t feel good

I never seen a clear without a tank before I wonder why..
It is just a complete mess balance.. with as little things to manage as possible.

Tank role needs so much improvement to the point of overhauling the reason why they exist in the first place?

Healers do heal
Dps do dps
Tanks should mitigate and mitigating shouldn't be easy to do ad they are now

[CKNovel]

Okay then next question. Do you think it feels good that your job is a “convenience” and not a need?

For the 99.9% of players I've mentioned, it's so much a convenience it's borderline a need.
The same way your fridge, hot plate, vehicles and everything else are so convenient you can't imagine living without these.

The "No heal challenge" would equate to a Texan doing a challenge a 3-months only bike challenge.

Possible but so laborious.

I never seen a clear without a tank before I wonder why..

Because tanks have responsibilities that goes beyond restoring/covering HP.
You can read the whole topic to know what are those responsibilities.

The same way, TEA was never cleared without a healer, because they had a responsibility that went beyond HP.

[Supersnow845]

For the 99.9% of players I've mentioned, it's so much a convenience it's borderline a need.
The same way your fridge, hot plate, vehicles and everything else are so convenient you can't imagine living without these.

The "No heal challenge" would equate to a Texan doing a challenge a 3-months only bike challenge.

Possible but so laborious.



Because tanks have responsibilities that goes beyond restoring/covering HP.
You can read the whole topic to know what are those responsibilities.

That’s not the question. It’s 99.9% in say TOP but the lower you go the easier it is, pick me up tank heavy groups for extremes are easy as hell these days and casual content actively encourages removal of healers. It doesn’t feel good to be the role that can be removed but your party probably isn’t good enough to do it, the other roles have inbuilt responsibilities no other role can do and feel like they meaningfully contribute to the party. If all encounters in the game could be effectively tanked by a WHM who did 30% more damage than you but you are slightly better at the tanking aspect would you like it?

Your reply to babyyoda implies tanks shouldn’t and can’t be removed because they have extra responsibilities but then your reasoning for healers basically amounts to “most people aren’t good enough”. Why can’t healers have these same level of responsibilities that make them unexcludable

The exception that proves the rule: Rubicante EX was cleared without tanks when it was still current.

I know you weren’t really making a point either way on my comment but rubicante is actually a perfect example of how healers feel all the time but for tanks. Rubicante never autos, his tankbusters hit like wet noodles and he ignores positioning 99% of the time, he is a boss that just doesn’t acknowledge tank is a role, and what do you know tanks hate that fight because they don’t feel necessary or respected in that fight

That’s how healers feel all the time

[BabyYoda]

For the 99.9% of players I've mentioned, it's so much a convenience it's borderline a need.
The same way your fridge, hot plate, vehicles and everything else are so convenient you can't imagine living without these.

The "No heal challenge" would equate to a Texan doing a challenge a 3-months only bike challenge.

Possible but so laborious.



Because tanks have responsibilities that goes beyond restoring/covering HP.
You can read the whole topic to know what are those responsibilities.

The same way, TEA was never cleared without a healer, because they had a responsibility that went beyond HP.

The game's designed around having dps to all jobs

But it isn't designed around giving all jobs heals! We have dedicated role for this their whole existing is to provide party mitigations and heals

Tank responsible to heal party? Is this even a logical?

[AmiableApkallu]

I never seen a clear without a tank before I wonder why

The exception that proves the rule: Rubicante EX was cleared without tanks when it was still current.