How many more times must our Living Dead get griefed?

[Alice_Rivers]

I actually really want Holy to have it's stun moved to another button, possibly one that replaces the role action Repose, so healers can have a tactical stun of their own that doesn't mess with tanks who either don't know about Holy or have situations where one doesn't get a 15s block of stun for whatever reason.

[AnjouMaaka]

Living Dead does not encourage communication

Having to tank invuln in a dungeon means something has gone horribly wrong

Dungeons are baby easy mode content where keeping a dark knight alive well enough that Living Dead doesn't get used is easy to do. Healers have no excuse for forcing the use of it, much less griefing it when it reaches that point. And that doesn't take communication to achieve. It simply require paying attention to the things you're supposed to be paying attention to as a healer.

There's no reason to bring your outside drama here, take it somewhere else.

Asking for tanks to be buffed is not a sign that the job is being played incorrectly, I don't know where you get that it is. And yes, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for one role who is only mained by players that have nothing better to do than grief dark knights all day every day in the duty finder be a role that gets ignored in dungeons. I'm not queuing in to have my time wasted by wipes to wall to wall pulls because of this vendetta against dark knights. I'm queuing in to get my tomes for the week. If there's a wipe to a wall to wall pull, I'm taking the 30 and reporting the healer for griefing. That would not be necessary if Raw Intuition was a tank role ability.

Funny that you want your healing to be required, but when it comes time for said healing to actually be required, you can't pass a simple heal check, such as Harrowing Hell or Brutal Impact. I've yet to see an M3 normal run where the healers don't cause at least 3 wipes before clearing. Try pressing your off globals for once.

[AnjouMaaka]

This is it, this is the most unhinged take on the forums I’ve ever seen

Shut it down guys, we are never surpassing whatever this is

Yes, let's all take seriously, the one that brought outside drama into a discussion that has nothing to do with said drama. Take your drama buddy with you and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Supersnow845]

Yes, let's all take seriously, the one that brought outside drama into a discussion that has nothing to do with said drama. Take your drama buddy with you and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

You mean where I refuted your idea then the other person randomly bought in drama. Yeah that’s totally my fault

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

The only QoL that I could think of for Living Dead is to add additional way to proc Walking Dead: receive enough damage equal to set amount of HP percentage (probably 100%) while Living Dead is active. Maybe extend the window of activation to 15s. This way, even if your healer goes into panic mode, your LD would still proc once that damage threshold is met. The good side of having external heal being able to pop your LD is in the event you cannot proc Walking Dead yourself (I.e. no target to attack, Down for the Count, stun, etc).

Hard disagree on adding more self sustenance to DRK. Anecdotally speaking I have never seen the need for extra sustenance in dungeon pulls as a DRK nor healers that could or could not be grieving. More than not, this is because of the combination of the following:

1. Healer have no idea what and how Living Dead works.
2. Healer is one of those 'omg tank's HP so low I need heal omgomg'-panickey healer.
3. Healer wasn't paying attention.

I certainly know DRKs do not need that extra sustenance because I've survived through wall pulls in 'harder dungeons' as a DRK paired with a Freecure/Physick/Helios/Diagnosis Mage with AND without use of LD. If that low of a HPS can sustain the tank with known lowest sustenance, then the issue would've lied on combination of all 4 players' competency (bad healing practice, single targeting dps, bad tank cooldown rotation, etc).

[Carighan]

The only QoL that I could think of for Living Dead is to add additional way to proc Walking Dead: receive enough damage equal to set amount of HP percentage (probably 100%) while Living Dead is active. Maybe extend the window of activation to 15s. This way, even if your healer goes into panic mode, your LD would still proc once that damage threshold is met. The good side of having external heal being able to pop your LD is in the event you cannot proc Walking Dead yourself (I.e. no target to attack, Down for the Count, stun, etc).

I mean wouldn't just blocking the healing during its activation window be a mechanically easier way of doing that? Or defer it, like I suggested before. But yeah, same idea in a way I guess.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I mean wouldn't just blocking the healing during its activation window be a mechanically easier way of doing that? Or defer it, like I suggested before. But yeah, same idea in a way I guess.

My only concern with blocking healing is when you're trying to invuln without any means to heal yourself like aforementioned reasons. Hencewhy I suggest the 2nd 'foolproof' condition to proc it once the DRK receive enough damage in the same window.

So now you have two ways to proc it: normal way (die first) or that.

[CKNovel]

You mean where I refuted your idea then the other person randomly bought in drama. Yeah that’s totally my fault

You're the one who attack with "It’s amazing how allergic tanks are to working with others"
I made a joke and you immediatly replied with "Yes we all know you cling to OP WAR like a blanket Get some new material please"

You're doing personal attacks after personal attack then act as the victim when getting called out.
You shifted the discussion to WHM gameplay, on the tank role, in a DRK topic. On top of being wrong, WHM's Holy II is their filler, it's not "the only thing that they can press" or "what they are going to be using immediately upon grouping up enemies".
You tell me I don't read tooltip but apparently you haven't read Presence of Mind or Afflatus Misery. What's next? "butbutbut they're 120s and afflatus requires to spend 3 lilies"? I don't care this is a tank forum.

Move on, go back to your healer strike, I don't come to healer forums telling how healers should play or that they should move on and accept their state.

[Supersnow845]

You're the one who attack with "It’s amazing how allergic tanks are to working with others"
I made a joke and you immediatly replied with "Yes we all know you cling to OP WAR like a blanket Get some new material please"

You're doing personal attacks after personal attack then act as the victim when getting called out.
You shifted the discussion to WHM gameplay, on the tank role, in a DRK topic. On top of being wrong, WHM's Holy II is their filler, it's not "the only thing that they can press" or "what they are going to be using immediately upon grouping up enemies".
You tell me I don't read tooltip but apparently you haven't read Presence of Mind or Afflatus Misery. What's next? "butbutbut they're 120s and afflatus requires to spend 3 lilies"? I don't care this is a tank forum.

Move on, go back to your healer strike, I don't come to healer forums telling how healers should play or that they should move on and accept their state.

Yes and the “it’s amazing how allergic tanks are to corporation” had absolutely nothing to do with you, it was a response to OP who’s spent 17 pages saying that healers only exist in this game to grief DRK’s and that any possible buff that could be made to shove healers out of the way of playing the game is automatically justified. If you wanna rant at someone for bringing healers into this then blame OP because rather than actually offering a solution in a useful manner they used this discussion to spend more time acting like healers are a plague on the game. When I’m a tank I want to play with my healer, not ignore them because I just assume they are trash. If you won’t acknowledge my point as a healer main then acknowledge my point as a tank enjoyer. I don’t like tank sustain both as the healer and the tank, I have a macro when I level WAR saying if the healer wants to actually heal I won’t press bloodwhetting, I like working with others, shocking I know

As for the WHM point YOU LITERALLY BOUGHT THAT UP INITIALLY. Did you forget already you were the person who first mentioned WHM to try to deflect my point. And yes you obviously didn’t read POM’s tooltip because that just makes you cast holy 3 faster, it isn’t a “different button”. If you are grouping up a pack with a WHM 999/1000 times they will cast holy and the other 1/1000 they will cast misery then holy, either way you are getting holy

No you don’t come onto the healer forum, but you’ll move heaven and earth to justify it on the tank threads why you are more important than the healer. Do I really have to explain the jobs are interconnected and some of us actually like that level of reliance. As a tank I despise being self sufficient and if the party dies I will kill myself. When this discussion comes up on tank threads I will argue against it because I play tanks, it’s not my problem if you don’t try to discuss on healer threads why you don’t like something about healers.

[CKNovel]

As for the WHM point YOU LITERALLY BOUGHT THAT UP INITIALLY. Did you forget already you were the person who first mentioned WHM to try to deflect my point. And yes you obviously didn’t read POM’s tooltip because that just makes you cast holy 3 faster, it isn’t a “different button”. If you are grouping up a pack with a WHM 999/1000 times they will cast holy and the other 1/1000 they will cast misery then holy, either way you are getting holy

First, no, I used WHM as an example for the "communication" argument, you brought WHM optimisation in. I could have used Ninja Example but choose WHM as it would be a better fit to the tank/heal discussion.

Second:


For your information yes it's a gain. The priority is:
Misery > Glare IV > 3 lilies into Misery > Holy II
You can math it out yourself.