Stormblood Scholar could be back in 8.0

[Tunda]

MMM i rechecked and all I see are our current spells with "consumes x numbers of stacks". I don't see any CD reduction anywhere.
At 3 stacks you get a healing buff
At 6 stacks you get a damage buff
At 9 stacks you can summon an extra fairy.

The issue is that everything you do litterally reduces your damage. Every ogcd and even gcd.
We know from experience that any option between DPS and healing results in DPS being favored unless absolutely necessary.

I understand people aren't particularly happy with the current scholar and everyone feel they can do a better design by thinking for a whole 5minutes but men just ponder for more than 5min and try to think how really, THAT would work out at every level of play.

It's litterally current SCH with
- longer CD
- restriction on ogcd usage through poison stack consumption
- the healer rewarded for litterally not healing as every single healing action reduces the poison stack.
- the only healer which would loose a whooping 300potency DoT if it stops dpsing for 6s. (very casual friendly I'm gonna say).
- Huge DPS loss everytime the boss leaves, even for a mehr 6s.

Since every healing skill are tied to a DPS counterpart, it means that this would heal only if absolutely necessary, making it by far the worst co-healer in existence.

I am with the ocean that healers must stay healers and have little to manage other than party hp..
but how that can be needs to be special..
as I mentioned that scholar must focus being a healer with less DPS but their healing depends on DPS.

all that assuming coming content will be harder and it require more healing and shielding.

regarding damage is low.. sorry teacher I didn't bring my calculator but from what I know numbers can be changed no?

"Huge DPS loss everytime the boss leaves, even for a mehr 6s."
6 second is enough for people to recharge the stacks in movement phases.


scholar is the easiest and most effective healer in the game
if you think current scholar is hard to manage you are just need to stop playing summoner and play harder job.

[Connor]

Someone: “Scholars are masters of poisons, toxins and plagues”
Another guy: “How did they get wiped out?”
Someone: “Poisons, toxins and plagues”

I still feel like this is focusing on something that wasn’t meant to be a part of the job in the first place lol. Scholars are meant to be masters of aetherial manipulation, I.e construction (into fairies) and deconstruction (Biolysis deconstructing corporeal aether).
I’d rather see them continue with that rather than stuffing in some extraneous ‘plague master’ identity that kinda goes against what we know of the job lol.
I mean, it’s ’a job that provides support’, that’s straight from the mouth of Alka Zolka, clearly this is a secret message from the devs and not personal confirmation bias lol

[Tunda]

Someone: “Scholars are masters of poisons, toxins and plagues”
Another guy: “How did they get wiped out?”
Someone: “Poisons, toxins and plagues”

I still feel like this is focusing on something that wasn’t meant to be a part of the job in the first place lol. Scholars are meant to be masters of aetherial manipulation, I.e construction (into fairies) and deconstruction (Biolysis deconstructing corporeal aether).
I’d rather see them continue with that rather than stuffing in some extraneous ‘plague master’ identity that kinda goes against what we know of the job lol.
I mean, it’s ’a job that provides support’, that’s straight from the mouth of Alka Zolka, clearly this is a secret message from the devs and not personal confirmation bias lol

If you follow scholar story till 50 you will be lost of the things that mentioned in the story that are not close to what the current scholar now..

we have broil job with dot that is shared between 4 other jobs that have nothing to link with their kit..

having them will hurt the job even more

[Sylvain]

I prefer having the healing and DPS completely seperated because then you can balance them individually and you won't have the endgame version of freecure procers being sacred sight procers.

I mean, It can be done in a smart way. The lilly system is a rather effective system to make gcd healing, through lilies, dps neutral/positive. You basically get both.
If anything when there are bosses downtime it allows you get gain gcd usage by throwing lilies while the boss isn’t here (which usually isn’t strictly speaking a throw since there are, usually, damage during those times so…)
SCH ED is a bit more problematic as, although the loss is very tiny, you still have that choice between “healing” vs “tiny teeny bit of dmg”. It a bit like an AST who has to choose between using Earthly Star on CD or to delay it 20-30s to heal an upcoming mechanic… by delaying it too often you end up loosing a star, thus DPS. However, unlike SCH, I feel AST can always find a way to use ES on CD to benefit both from the healing and damage whereas a SCH cannot unless drastically overgearing the fight. (No Indom, SS or Excog and deploy would make for a rather weak healer in a healing intensive scenario)
So far, to me, SCH Is the one being the worst off while at the same time having the biggest avenue for dps optimization… You can’t have both obviously.

scholar is the easiest and most effective healer in the game
if you think current scholar is hard to manage you are just need to stop playing summoner and play harder job.

Effective is debatable, but sure.
Easier? In what world is SCH easier than WHM or SGE?
No other healer lock out some of its kit by using some other skills.
No other healer have to actively choose between dmg and healing
Sage Kerachole is better or easier than handle than Scholar Sacred Soil in most scenarios.
Deployement tactic / Seraph are also trickier to use than Holos/Panhaima
Sage can literally shield while moving.
Sage has instant damaging gcd which aren’t a dps loss
Like, in what world can you believe that SCH is the easiest healer to play…
And I play AST, and I don’t see what SMN has anything to do with the topic.

I am with the ocean that healers must stay healers and have little to manage other than party hp..
but how that can be needs to be special.
as I mentioned that scholar must focus being a healer with less DPS but their healing depends on DPS.

Then you make no sens, because your proposition is a healer that requires to actively dps to use any form of healing. Every single action you’ve presented require poison stack which require you to DPS in order to consume. What you proposed is the antithesis of a healer only healing. Your proposition cannot heal without smashing miasma.

Someone: “Scholars are masters of poisons, toxins and plagues”
Another guy: “How did they get wiped out?”
Someone: “Poisons, toxins and plagues”

I still feel like this is focusing on something that wasn’t meant to be a part of the job in the first place lol. Scholars are meant to be masters of aetherial manipulation, I.e construction (into fairies) and deconstruction (Biolysis deconstructing corporeal aether).
I’d rather see them continue with that rather than stuffing in some extraneous ‘plague master’ identity that kinda goes against what we know of the job lol.

Spot on

[Uncle_Jafar]

Peak SCH was ARR, before broil.

[Tunda]

Then you make no sens, because your proposition is a healer that requires to actively dps to use any form of healing. Every single action you’ve presented require poison stack which require you to DPS in order to consume. What you proposed is the antithesis of a healer only healing. Your proposition cannot heal without smashing miasma.
Spot on

I literally reduce DPS buttons for scholar from 3 to 1 how did my idea is DPS focused?
Do you actually read?

What is the link of broil and the rest of its kit? nothing just remove it..

the reason that we can't have healer without DPS spells is the game design.. I wish we can have it but we can't bro.. the game designed in a way that healer must do DPS.
and how to make Healer DPS interesting? to make it part of their kit.

you have broil with 3 other different skins to 3 different jobs that have the same dot that is not part of their kit.. why we need them? just rework their DPS kit to be part of their kit.
1 button to make scholar focus on healing

How is this unclear?

Peak SCH was ARR, before broil.

You are right uncle

[Ramiee]

I mean, It can be done in a smart way. The lilly system is a rather effective system to make gcd healing, through lilies, dps neutral/positive. You basically get both.
If anything when there are bosses downtime it allows you get gain gcd usage by throwing lilies while the boss isn’t here (which usually isn’t strictly speaking a throw since there are, usually, damage during those times so…)
SCH ED is a bit more problematic as, although the loss is very tiny, you still have that choice between “healing” vs “tiny teeny bit of dmg”. It a bit like an AST who has to choose between using Earthly Star on CD or to delay it 20-30s to heal an upcoming mechanic… by delaying it too often you end up loosing a star, thus DPS. However, unlike SCH, I feel AST can always find a way to use ES on CD to benefit both from the healing and damage whereas a SCH cannot unless drastically overgearing the fight. (No Indom, SS or Excog and deploy would make for a rather weak healer in a healing intensive scenario)
So far, to me, SCH Is the one being the worst off while at the same time having the biggest avenue for dps optimization… You can’t have both obviously.

DPS neutral is fine, but something that promotes overhealing for damage procs or promotes not healing for damage is bad design. The lilies are already technically not DPS neutral due to buffs and crits but its more than likely to be DPS neutral which means you wont over heal (except between pulls in dungeons.)
For SCH I completely disagree because ED is not superior to the healing tools you can use with aether, EDs strength is that it slowly adds up in damage but its not significant enough to effect the DPS output of SCH completely, if you don't ED once in a fight you'll still do enough damage for the healers damage check easily it just allows you to get uses out of your aethercharges if you don't need them until the next cycle. Compared to something like Assize, ED is 100x less egregious then that, Assize will NEVER be used for its healing every single WHM in savage uses it for damage, if it lines up with a need for healing output, cool thats a bonus but unlike ED which can easily be ignored if you need the Aetherpoint for a heal/mit the damage of Assize is worth more than it as a healing tool. Earthly star also suffers from the same fate, people use it on CD because its damage is worth more than its healing though unlike Assize it has 20 seconds of charge time where it can possible be used to help in healing, compared to ED both of these moves are 100x more problamatic then ED ever will be.

[Sylvain]

I literally reduce DPS buttons for scholar from 3 to 1 how did my idea is DPS focused?
Do you actually read?

Yes, but at the same time you put "consumes x poison" on each ability.
Unless you can cast without poison? But then what's the point, for the small healing bonus?

- If you need the poison stacks to heal, because they need to be consummed (which is usually implied for a "consuming" ability), then yes, your version is more DPS centric because even if SCH had 10 dps key, they could still heal while pressing 0 dps key.
In your case, you cannot heal without using dps key even if there's only 1. (two actually because you added one which double poisons stacks, in case you forgot)
- If you do not need the poisons stack, then you're still more dps centric because if you want the healing bonus you need to dps to keep the 3 stacks of poison which only last 6s or 9 stack to summon Seraph. Whereas again, even if SCH had 10 keys, a SCH wishing to only heal would be able to do 100% of their healing potential by not pressing any.

Either way, your version is more dps centric because unlike current sch, your design makes DPS affect healing positively. A SCH not dps-ing will have less healing potential than one doing. Even if there's only 1 dps spell and 1 ability (double poison stacks)

How is this unclear?

Your own design, how is this unclear?

DPS neutral is fine, but something that promotes overhealing for damage procs or promotes not healing for damage is bad design.

I would agree but this cannot be avoided unless you increase damage to the point where "at BiS with perfectily synced teamplay and mitigation your toolkit (so amount of available lilies) are at best barely enough to heal without throwing a single gcd heal that is not a lilly."
Which would make all fight exactly at the same healing requirement and horribly hard to heal at an entry level of gear.
Let's take black cat, there are two moments where the healing is a bit tight where you usually place your bell, when you have the proxy bait + wind share. In between it can be fairely easily healed with only lilies.
Imagine how many more raid burst that boss would need to do so that at an ilv 730, with good team mate and mitigation, you have 0 spare lily to just throw to build your blood lilly. That'd be so insanely high that no casual healer moderately skill would be able to heal through that fight at min ilv on week1.
By virtue of getting gear, we heal more and take less damage. At some point, your "i need 2 lilies here" become "i need 1 lilly here" and well... you still have that lilly...
However, one thing they should do IMO is to remove magic resist on gear and normalise magical damage taken. Because getting gear has a multiplicative effect on the healing requirement. (more healing, less damage taken) hence why healing becomes so easy (and thus bring the issue you're having with overhealing).

In case your problem is just from specifically using healing ressource like lilies to get damage, it's still tied to the above... if you weren't using a lilly you'd be using a glare... in the end the issue is that the healing requirement falls down waaayyy too fast with stuff.

For SCH I completely disagree because ED is not superior to the healing tools you can use with aether, EDs strength is that it slowly adds up in damage but its not significant enough to effect the DPS output of SCH completely, if you don't ED once in a fight you'll still do enough damage for the healers damage check easily it just allows you to get uses out of your aethercharges if you don't need them until the next cycle

Maybe I wasn't clear enough but that's what I meant. When using one of your 4 skill tied to AF, the healing vastly out perform the gain from ED as indeed, it is not significant enough (thanks god). Even if you'd use all your AF as ED, that's only 400 potency per minute (adding dissipation) which is 1.3 extra broil per minute... sure over 10 minutes that's a whooping 30s-ish worth of dps but surely if you can affort that, dps check was really not an issue.

And I agree Assize on the other hand has to be used for damage and not (or barely) delayed. At least Earthly Star has a 20s window so the odds of using it for both healing and damage are better than assize. (and it's so massive it also works if the group is far appart)

[Tunda]

Yes, but at the same time you put "consumes x poison" on each ability.
Unless you can cast without poison? But then what's the point, for the small healing bonus?

- If you need the poison stacks to heal, because they need to be consummed (which is usually implied for a "consuming" ability), then yes, your version is more DPS centric because even if SCH had 10 dps key, they could still heal while pressing 0 dps key.
In your case, you cannot heal without using dps key even if there's only 1. (two actually because you added one which double poisons stacks, in case you forgot)
- If you do not need the poisons stack, then you're still more dps centric because if you want the healing bonus you need to dps to keep the 3 stacks of poison which only last 6s or 9 stack to summon Seraph. Whereas again, even if SCH had 10 keys, a SCH wishing to only heal would be able to do 100% of their healing potential by not pressing any.

Either way, your version is more dps centric because unlike current sch, your design makes DPS affect healing positively. A SCH not dps-ing will have less healing potential than one doing. Even if there's only 1 dps spell and 1 ability (double poison stacks)

I didn't bring this up this is already in the current design..aetherflow system for scholar which you consume aether to do healing or doing damage.. this is already in the design since ShB..

there is no double poison on my rework.. it double the stacks that give you passives or allow to activate other spells there is no DPS gain..

"- If you need the poison stacks to heal, because they need to be consummed (which is usually implied for a "consuming" ability), then yes, your version is more DPS centric because even if SCH had 10 dps key, they could still heal while pressing 0 dps key."

in fact this actually inforce healers to play the game as intended as developers says "healers must DPS" this is the current design even if you don't like it there is no contradictions..
BTW I mentioned that scholar can do healing without stacks but it will cost more MP and cast time.

"- If you do not need the poisons stack, then you're still more dps centric because if you want the healing bonus you need to dps to keep the 3 stacks of poison which only last 6s or 9 stack to summon Seraph. Whereas again, even if SCH had 10 keys, a SCH wishing to only heal would be able to do 100% of their healing potential by not pressing any."

and again this will in force players to play healers as developer intended to design the role.
you really don't understand how healers been designed in this game.

"Either way, your version is more dps centric because unlike current sch, your design makes DPS affect healing positively. A SCH not dps-ing will have less healing potential than one doing. Even if there's only 1 dps spell and 1 ability (double poison stacks)"

the current design let you choose between DPSing or Healing.. this is bad design for people who will 100% greed and choose dps.. you will see these people in the high-end
my idea is to actually in force healers to do what they suppose to do damage(which how developers intend healer to do) and healing with no point that you will choose DPS over healing.

double stack is a utility spell not a dps gain.

best scholars in the game do DPS because they understand how healers meant to play..

at this point I really don't know weather you troll or you just don't understand FFXIV healer design.

[Sylvain]

I didn't bring this up this is already in the current design..aetherflow system for scholar which you consume aether to do healing or doing damage.. this is already in the design since ShB..

This is not the same.
The current design is OR, your design is TO

You need AF to heal OR to dps
You need poison stack TO heal

in fact this actually inforce healers to play the game as intended as developers says "healers must DPS" this is the current design even if you don't like it there is no contradictions..

Dude how can you be so hypocritical.
You complain that current SCH focuses too much on DPS, you want to reduce the amount of DPS skill and want healer to be able to 100% focus on healing.
You propose something that does litterally the opposite, I point it and you then say "well this design goes along what the dev want, us to dps, so I don't see the problem".

"the reason that we can't have healer without DPS spells is the game design.. I wish we can have it but we can't bro.. the game designed in a way that healer must do DPS.
and how to make Healer DPS interesting? to make it part of their kit."
Your words.
You wish for healer without DPS, to not have to choose

my idea is to actually in force healers to do what they suppose to do damage(which how developers intend healer to do) and healing with no point that you will choose DPS over healing.
What does the poison stack do? According to your tooltip, a DoT damage.
What does a healing spell/ability do? Heal + consumming a poison stack.
Do you do more damage with 5 poison stack than 4 poison stack?
yes : then you're back to the current system, damage or healing. You chose to heal at the expense of 1 poison stack until re-applied
no : Then what are the stack for? Just remove ED at this point and you reach your end game and SCH stops needing to dps OR heal.

.

double stack is a utility spell not a dps gain

Boss has 5 stack, receives x damage over the next server tick.
two scenarios unfold
use "double stack" : boss goes up to 10 stack, receives 2x damage.
do not use "double stack" : boss stays at 5 stack and thus receive x damage at the next server tick.
2x > x, therefor more damage (a dps gain)

Like for real? Doubling a DoT stack is not a dps upgrade? (unless you're idea is of a stackable poison dealing no damage)

at this point I really don't know weather you troll or you just don't understand FFXIV healer design.

Men you sure seems confident about your understanding and experience in the game, really curious about your achievement to speak with such a condescendant tone.