#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Benji41]

I understand your point but there has to be some middle ground between "Healer dying automatically meant the whole group had to wipe" and "It doesn't really matter if the Healer is alive"

[Alice_Rivers]

I understand your point but there has to be some middle ground between "Healer dying automatically meant the whole group had to wipe" and "It doesn't really matter if the Healer is alive"

I know there are those who advocate for the removal of ALL healing from every job that isn't a healer, I consider that an extreme position, others have pointed out that if dps couldn't heal at all then pretty much every solo duty would have to be retested to ensure they could finish it. So I do think there is room for a point where a party that actively uses what limited heals it has should be able to do a bit, like surviving a raidwide and/or a stack so that if you play well you might beat 15-20% of a boss absent a healer depending on how mechs and raidwide damage play out. That way it's not overly punishing if everyone's doing well but the healer slips up, though if a healer really can't do that much (especially at level 80+) kicking them should be the team's right.

[Aravell]

I know there are those who advocate for the removal of ALL healing from every job that isn't a healer, I consider that an extreme position, others have pointed out that if dps couldn't heal at all then pretty much every solo duty would have to be retested to ensure they could finish it.

I just want to point out that removing all healing from the DPS jobs wouldn't affect any solo duty (except when they solo DD).

Physical ranged jobs actually didn't have any heal in HW, so they gave us a constant regen on the special solo duty buff. As long as you don't take avoidable damage, you never need to use any self healing on a DPS job in instanced solo duties.

[PercibelTheren]

I know there are those who advocate for the removal of ALL healing from every job that isn't a healer, I consider that an extreme position, others have pointed out that if dps couldn't heal at all then pretty much every solo duty would have to be retested to ensure they could finish it. So I do think there is room for a point where a party that actively uses what limited heals it has should be able to do a bit, like surviving a raidwide and/or a stack so that if you play well you might beat 15-20% of a boss absent a healer depending on how mechs and raidwide damage play out. That way it's not overly punishing if everyone's doing well but the healer slips up, though if a healer really can't do that much (especially at level 80+) kicking them should be the team's right.

I think it's fine for DPS to have enough healing to short-term tide the party over the next raidwide or so while the healers are being scraped off the floor. They just shouldn't be able to keep everyone alive indefinitely. This is honestly also my gripe with Warrior. If it wants to have crazy self healing (even though I think it should be toned down), that's fine. It's the fact that WAR can literally do a healer's job while also tanking that I find problematic.

[GartredZW]

I understand your point but there has to be some middle ground between "Healer dying automatically meant the whole group had to wipe" and "It doesn't really matter if the Healer is alive"

What if players could use Phoenix Downs in normal content?
They could even make the Phoenix Down a General Action like sprint or limit break. It could have a long cast time that can't be swiftcast, just to make sure it's not better than a Healer res in any way. For good measure, have it cost 50% of your HP to use, and have a three minute cooldown.

[ForsakenRoe]

What if players could use Phoenix Downs in normal content?
They could even make the Phoenix Down a General Action like sprint or limit break. It could have a long cast time that can't be swiftcast, just to make sure it's not better than a Healer res in any way. For good measure, have it cost 50% of your HP to use, and have a three minute cooldown.

All they need to do is make PD's stackable (they're currently not), useable in combat (IDK if they are or not atm), and have whatever CD they believe is 'balanced' (heck it could be 30m, resetting upon wipe, so that in Savage etc you get one per player, per pull). Healer Res/Caster Res would remain 'better' because A: it's repeatable (ie a Healer can cast their res multiple times over the course of a fight), and B: it has range (to PD someone you have to be standing on them, and if they died to EG a puddle, you can't reach them with a PD until the puddle clears).

Plus, Phoenix Downs are like, THE 'res' item, they have the whole franchise's precedent behind them

I think it's fine for DPS to have enough healing to short-term tide the party over the next raidwide or so while the healers are being scraped off the floor. They just shouldn't be able to keep everyone alive indefinitely. This is honestly also my gripe with Warrior. If it wants to have crazy self healing (even though I think it should be toned down), that's fine. It's the fact that WAR can literally do a healer's job while also tanking that I find problematic.

The more I think on it, the more convinced I get that converting a lot of Tank actions that currently do healing, over to doing some kind of barrier effect, would massively help here while still allowing the Tank to feel like they have some agency over their own HP. For example, instead of Heart of Excog on GNB giving a 900p heal, why not let it be a very short duration barrier effect, to make the mitigative effect of the action stronger, while not detracting from the Healer role? Why not have Shake it Off's Regen effect (added to aid WAR in 'mitigating damage over time effects') be a Panhaima style layered barrier effect (which would also help with mitigating damage over time effects)? Why not have Holy Sheltron do the same, instead of a 1000p total Regen (which it can give to other players!)

[Somnolence]

All they need to do is make PD's stackable (they're currently not), useable in combat (IDK if they are or not atm), and have whatever CD they believe is 'balanced' (heck it could be 30m, resetting upon wipe, so that in Savage etc you get one per player, per pull). Healer Res/Caster Res would remain 'better' because A: it's repeatable (ie a Healer can cast their res multiple times over the course of a fight), and B: it has range (to PD someone you have to be standing on them, and if they died to EG a puddle, you can't reach them with a PD until the puddle clears).

In general I believe all support abilities should be limited to resources or CDs, including resurrection.

The problem we have now that in endgame scenarios incoming damage is scripted and can be accounted for with limited resources.

Yet in casual content people can stay in bad, die and this requires unlimited healing and unlimited resurrections to essentially corpse drag them.

Also since unlimited healing exists at all, healers doing this content primarily don't learn how to optimize their limited healing resources as they simply don't need them to pass such content.

The fact that healer kits need to have support for two wildly different scenarios is part of a problem and I am not sure what can be done given that SE is deadly afraid to raise the skill floor which prevents meaningful changes.

Only idea I have is to make all healing and rez limited, then allow more spammable variant actions for all casual content.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Phoenix Down's tooltip at least says "*Cannot be used during battle."

But on other threads on other Jobs ressing, I think the solution is giving Melee and Ranged Phys a role action revive, that has a long CD (3+ minutes) and also bringing back Enrage timers to normal difficulty content. So if you have to ress a million times you don't just eventually win by outlasting the boss...

[OliviaLugria]

I understand your point but there has to be some middle ground between "Healer dying automatically meant the whole group had to wipe" and "It doesn't really matter if the Healer is alive"

Ya... great... do that.