My 2 cents on ranged tax

[Valence]

And here we go again, people trying to pit the difficulty of their respective roles in order for... what exactly again?

[Ramiee]

And here we go again, people trying to pit the difficulty of their respective roles in order for... what exactly again?

Excuses of why theirs should do more damage and why the filthy other roles cant be near theirs damage.

[Xieldras]

And here we go again, people trying to pit the difficulty of their respective roles in order for... what exactly again?

I personally don't get it. I just want my class to be fun, I don't care if I'm the best in damage.

I understand that balancing is a tough act, but seems to me like the community (and thus S-E) holds it as sacred, hence why there are so many disagreements.

[Corwin_Sunchaser]

I personally don't get it. I just want my class to be fun, I don't care if I'm the best in damage.

I partially share your opinion. I play MCH so obviously I play it because I find it fun, not because it's the best. However as a player playing a dps role (like melee, casters etc...), it's annoying to be so low compared to other dps, that it can mean a kill or not. For example on M4S the difference between a viper and a MCH at parse median is around 2500 dps. That's more than 10% difference. And for killing the boss it means something like 1.6% of its total hp. To compare, remember when they nerfed P8S in 6.21 because an extra 1% was making the boss too difficult?

So yes, when you play physical ranged dps, you play in hard mode.

[Xieldras]

I partially share your opinion. I play MCH so obviously I play it because I find it fun, not because it's the best. However as a player playing a dps role (like melee, casters etc...), it's annoying to be so low compared to other dps, that it can mean a kill or not. For example on M4S the difference between a viper and a MCH at parse median is around 2500 dps. That's more than 10% difference. And for killing the boss it means something like 1.6% of its total hp. To compare, remember when they nerfed P8S in 6.21 because an extra 1% was making the boss too difficult?

So yes, when you play physical ranged dps, you play in hard mode.

That's...dumbfounding to say the least. I wouldn't mind lower damage if it was within a reasonable range compared to the other roles, but it's clearly not if the gap is over 10%. And the fact that it seems to have been going on for so long would be enough for me to ask for either new blood on the team or the outright replacement of the current one, as the Balancing is clearly being failed (due to either bias, or the focus on the shiny new classes, I don't know).

As for the OP: considering how mobile a lot of the casting classes are nowadays (looking at you Picto), either tax them as well or send the Sheriff of Nottingham packing.

[Valence]

That's...dumbfounding to say the least. I wouldn't mind lower damage if it was within a reasonable range compared to the other roles, but it's clearly not if the gap is over 10%. And the fact that it seems to have been going on for so long would be enough for me to ask for either new blood on the team or the outright replacement of the current one, as the Balancing is clearly being failed (due to either bias, or the focus on the shiny new classes, I don't know).

As for the OP: considering how mobile a lot of the casting classes are nowadays (looking at you Picto), either tax them as well or send the Sheriff of Nottingham packing.

Since shb the gap has been around 10% at launch and with successive buffs later usually down to 5-6% ish. Happens every expansion since then, and I don't understand how. Either way, that's no excuse for that to be a regular occurence, with usually one rphys that's really down the drain more than the others (BRD in ShB, MCH in EW, jury's still out for DT).

I seem to remember that 10% as the very rough threshold where the 1% party bonus provided by rphys stops being enough to make up for the gap. Even more problematic when your team takes a RDM or a SMN, where they do also have to satisfy this in order to remain relevant too.

[Valence]

I personally don't get it. I just want my class to be fun, I don't care if I'm the best in damage.

I understand that balancing is a tough act, but seems to me like the community (and thus S-E) holds it as sacred, hence why there are so many disagreements.

Any debate based on difficulty is doomed to fail to sheer subjectivity (and bias as well), on top of also getting into serious slippery slope territory of "what then?" once some roles are designed to underperform: they become the baby's first raid jobs, disparaged, disregarded, introduce skill gaps within groups, etc. Fortunately there is SMN to shield rphys from this all, but still.

Either way, the real problem is that rphys as a role currently can only use APM/busyness and rotational complexity as levers to stay in that race, since uptime is a non parameter for them. And currently, the role doesn't exactly deliver in those areas comparatively to other roles. MCH delivers in APM, BRD/DNC in rotational proc/rng, but the latter has... been watered down quite hard, and both aren't exactly above everything else found in other roles to justify anything anyway. And since I do think that there is a limit to APM for a job to flow well and fit within the current limits of the system, my conclusion is that they really killed the rotational depth of the role when they shouldn't have.

Now, in my opinion there shouldn't be any "role bonus". It has a positive of ensuring each role will be picked and allows balance slip-up.
But on the negative side, this allows a massive slip up on a whole role and makes the physical ranged role the ungrateful role.
You matter less but hey, you're here to bring the 1% stats buffs!

Not gonna lie I hope someone has the guts to ask this question to Yoshida next Q&A, like that guy that asked him why WhM was so garbage at the end of SB and if they had any plans to make it better. Paved the way for one of the most successful meme gifs ever made.

[CKNovel]

Not gonna lie I hope someone has the guts to ask this question to Yoshida next Q&A, like that guy that asked him why WhM was so garbage at the end of SB and if they had any plans to make it better. Paved the way for one of the most successful meme gifs ever made.

I'm definitely sure it has reached them but for some reason they just don't lessen the tax.
For WHM I have no doubt it was because of the kit and the fact you never used any lilies and the very GCD focused gameplay pulled the job down.

The physical ranged, the gameplay is fine, it's just the number are undertuned.

I enjoy MCH but I also enjoy Viper and Reaper, so when I make my choice to gear a second job... Well I'd rather have fun AND feel useful to the party.