With Apologies to Sena Bryer

[Tsumdere]

I don't get why people struggle so much with this concept. I'm not even defending Sena. I don't like her. But she doesn't want to BE like you. She IS like you, she is like me. She is every bit as much of a woman, regardless of the circumstances of her birth. Just because she isn't a good person doesn't make it okay to deny a person's humanity like that.

Where did I say I'm denying her humanity? That's a whole new sentence and incredibly gross of you to say. Also embarrassing especially since you're barking up the wrong tree with me. You can look at my post history and easily see that I believe in rejecting gender norms. I've even been dogpiled on this very forum back in ShB for getting mad at people for misgendering/sexism/creep behavior. I'm a 'woke leftie' through and through. Don't assume everyone here is out to attack transwomen because they don't parrot the 'best' opinion word for word.

Transwomen and ciswomen have incredibly unique struggles that the other doesn't experience as a whole. I cannot imagine what it's like having to go through lengthy procedures and medication just to feel like myself. Transwomen cannot imagine how it feels spending nearly your entire life (history, really) being reduced to nothing but your ability to bear children and please men... etc etc. Many examples that I will withhold for brevity's sake.
Trans people should have rights and not live in fear of hate crimes/misgendering/lack of healthcare, but at the same time they should not insist we're the same because we are biological and socially not. And being different is okay. We're all deserving of our rights and respect regardless of our differences. I don't see how that is hard to understand.

Besides, Sena doesn't even believe we are the same because, according to her, she's more deserving of roles than ciswomen because she's different. That sucks of her to say and it sucks that someone like that is the VA of the leading character of DT.

It's genuinely just because they hate trans people. If it was just what they say, that they dislike her work as a VA in Dawntrail or think she's a bad person, then they would just say that (and for the record I also dislike her work and don't like her as a person, either). But they like to say wildly transphobic stuff like this and then excuse it away with "whoa how dare you I was just criticizing her job in Dawntrail and I think she's an awful person".

I suggest just reporting them for transphobia and putting them on ignore. People in this thread have already been banned for it.

You can report me for transphobia and believe I hate transpeople even though I said nothing of the kind. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Just know that you're not doing yourself any favors by reporting people who are literally on your side about not misgendering Sena lol. Get a grip.

[FlowerMilk]

Transwomen and ciswomen have incredibly unique struggles that the other doesn't experience as a whole. I cannot imagine what it's like having to go through lengthy procedures and medication just to feel like myself. Transwomen cannot imagine how it feels spending nearly your entire life (history, really) being reduced to nothing but your ability to bear children and please men... etc etc. Many examples that I will withhold for brevity's sake.

I'm a cis woman and my girlfriend is a trans woman. I can tell you from my own personal experience that men treat us with the exact same amount of misogyny and don't care that I am a cis woman and she is a trans woman, they don't make that distinction when it comes to misogyny. Our struggles with discrimination are really not as different as you'd think.

I only wish that blacklisting here would also do it in-game because I don't ever want to have to encounter any of them.* I applaud you for trying to have any type of discussion with them though, even though it'll probably continue to go nowhere. I think the worst of it is seeing them victimize themselves for being called transphobes/transphobic. After all of the physical and mental struggles that trans people have to deal with in their lives, these guys still find a way to make it about themselves, and that's just crazy to me. Instead of trying to understand why they're getting called out for being hateful, they get angry and say things like "respect is earned", "you don't have to agree with my opinion", or they say that the world is full of sensitive people etc. I just don't understand how people this miserable navigate through life or even have friends, especially on this game.

Anyway, I hope you're not letting any of it get to you. Dealing with hate speech like this is just exhausting.

I'm genuinely just posting here to fill time while I wait in queue, and just dropping info and dispelling misinfo wherever I can lol. But thanks <3 It doesn't bother me, I am used to it.

[Tsumdere]

You know that you don't have to undergo the procedure to be trans these days, right?
In terms of Gender Dysphoria, since I used to have it, it went away around the 20's and I ended up gay. In terms of surgery and what not, they don't tell you that your body closes up itself and you have to keep something somewhere to keep that part open. Our bodies don't remold like clay, so any procedure to open or change a part will close up on itself. Medication is used to stabilize the body; everyone does not have the opportunity to have such a healthcare so many Trans people do not get the care they need and then their body starts to reject itself and more health complication happens. In terms of healthcare, that's its own conundrum that I can't talk about, but the populace will not be happy to pay for someone's transition when they are already not happy about SSI payments and the like.

I'm familiar with all of this. I was just using a singular example to elaborate on my point.
A friend of mine saved up for her surgery and it has been a long and painful journey that I have heard much about. She is happy though.

I'm a cis woman and my girlfriend is a trans woman. I can tell you from my own personal experience that men treat us with the exact same amount of misogyny and don't care that I am a cis woman and she is a trans woman, they don't make that distinction when it comes to misogyny. Our struggles with discrimination are really not as different as you'd think.

I'm unsure where this came from. I can only assume people are trying to intentionally paint me in a bad light and whip out things I never said. I never said transwomen don't experience misogyny.
Besides, misogyny comes in many forms and can even negatively affect cismen if they don't neatly fall into boxes people want to put them in (i.e. bullying for being effeminate if you are a man vs bullying for not being effeminate if you are a woman). It affects everyone. It is similar to how racism affects each group differently... because they are different. You should know this.

[FlowerMilk]

I'm unsure where this came from. I can only assume people are trying to intentionally paint me in a bad light and whip out things I never said. I never said transwomen don't experience misogyny.
Besides, misogyny comes in many forms and can even negatively affect cismen if they don't neatly fall into boxes people want to put them in (i.e. bullying for being effeminate if you are a man vs bullying for not being effeminate if you are a woman). It affects everyone. It is similar to how racism affects each group differently... because they are different. You should know this.

Nah, it's because you said trans women and cis women have different struggles. And I'm just telling you firsthand from my own personal experience, it's actually not as different as you'd think. Especially because misogyny ultimately comes from the same root cause: the patriarchy. So at the end of the day, the reasons for men being misogynistic to me and my girlfriend are exactly the same: we are not what women *should* be like under a patriarchal society. The way we are treated and how we are made to feel is ultimately the same, even if we have our own unique experiences. Thus, we can very easily empathize with each other when it comes to these kinds of situations in that regard.

I mean, you also could have listed those instead of giving a Wikipedia link. I'd be more inclined to look into it then but instead it's on me to dig for what you want me to know. I don't think it's typically the person listening to your presentations responsibility to do the research for the presenter.

Unfortunately these forums have a limited number of words you can post so all I could do was just link the Wikipedia page for you to do that on your own. And the article I quoted was one of the Wikipedia sources.

[LianaThorne]

Nah, it's because you said trans women and cis women have different struggles. And I'm just telling you firsthand from my own personal experience, it's actually not as different as you'd think. Especially because misogyny ultimately comes from the same root cause: the patriarchy. So at the end of the day, the reasons for men being misogynistic to me and my girlfriend are exactly the same: we are not what women *should* be like under a patriarchal society. The way we are treated and how we are made to feel is ultimately the same, even if we have our own unique experiences. Thus, we can very easily empathize with each other when it comes to these kinds of situations in that regard.



Unfortunately these forums have a limited number of words you can post so all I could do was just link the Wikipedia page for you to do that on your own.

You can edit your post afterwards to include more words after hitting the limit, just a PSA.

[FlowerMilk]

The fact that per capita domestic violence in the US is highest amongst Lesbian couples?

This is actually a myth. Here is a video where a guy explores the study you're citing in depth, including the part where 97.1% of female victims of rape, physical violence, or stalking by an intimate partner had only male perpetrators.

Okay, so you are being so disingenuous. You understood what I meant the first time and are just being pedantic. We do have unique struggles (as you have just said yourself) and I never said all of our struggles are completely separate because that is asinine. And that is a very broad and reductive definition of misogyny used to erase the uniqueness of each group. There are many facets of it that each group simply cannot experience in any way, shape, or form unless God comes down, reverses time, and has them born as the opposite sex.

Moreover, empathizing is not the same as experiencing so nothing you have said changes what I said. Good job.

I'm not trying to argue with you or say you're a bigot or whatever is making you get so hostile in response. I am only telling you about my own personal experience with what you are talking about. If you wanna get offended over me saying that cis women and trans women can empathize with each other over our own experiences with misogyny then I guess that's just, like, your opinion man. I personally think that is a good thing, but okay.

[Lorika]

, including the part where 97.1% of female victims of rape, physical violence, or stalking by an intimate partner had only male perpetrators.

Well, logical if you think really about it and use your brain for more than a mere second : the very vast majority of couple on this planet are Hetero couple... So it's logical that the vast majority of the victim have a male as perpetrator.
Does it make the other statistic a lie? nope, not in the slighest... Saying otherwise is just hyprocrisy

[BigBoom550]

Well, logical if you think really about it and use your brain for more than a mere second : the very vast majority of couple on this planet are Hetero couple... So it's logical that the vast majority of the victim have a male as perpetrator.
Does it make the other statistic a lie? nope, not in the slighest... Saying otherwise is just hyprocrisy

Judging by the quality of their other arguments, I'm not sure they understand what 'per capita' means.

That said, can we get back to complaining about VAs? That's the thread topic.

[ViaDesperare]

I'm familiar with all of this. I was just using a singular example to elaborate on my point.
A friend of mine saved up for her surgery and it has been a long and painful journey that I have heard much about. She is happy though.

I hope things keep going well for her. The guy I know, watching his life through facebook has been horrific. Watching him slowly deteriorate and basically die with no way to get help, is extremely painful. I stopped checking the page when he started posting blood related pictures, because I don't want to see those stuff... I didn't like the guy for bullying my female friends, but he shouldn't be going out that way.

I love coming to this thread now n then just to see FlowerMilk yap, a true forums cryptid

Don't forget the racism. No one knows the Latin American culture and language better than FlowerMilk, not even the native inhabitants! I feel like FlowerMilk is always trying to one up SwadTheFrog and Midare, who are both Latin American Natives iirc? Like man the colonization and racism are strong as heck in this one.

[SwadTheFrog]

Don't forget the racism. No one knows the Latin American culture and language better than FlowerMilk, not even the native inhabitants! I feel like FlowerMilk is always trying to one up SwadTheFrog and Midare, who are both Latin American Natives iirc? Like man the colonization and racism are strong as heck in this one.

Correct -we both are, but man, the moment the "Latinx" argument was brought up, I've just been laughing from afar - it's the death knell for anyone arguing about south american/latino folks, as it's either someone trolling - which is what I actually believe Flower Milk is -I genuinely think he's a twenty-somethings lad having the time of his life messing with people, instead of what they *claim* to be, or someone that is *genuinely* colonialist and hilariously racist. Midare put it way better than I could with their comment.

Either options don't paint the user well regardelss. I'm just going for the interpretation that paints them *better*.

You know, it's funny. For the longest time I thought nothing could actually offend me no matter what I hear.

And then in comes english speakers who are terminally online with the whole "latinx" thing.

The sheer, visceral annoyance that word and its adjacents causes me it's hard to describe in detail.

Honestly ignore it, like I said, it's either of those two, and in either case, it's someone that's not worth the attention. I'd like to note that Latinx is rejected even in the most liberal universitis in SA, so why give it attention?