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  1. #1
    Player
    Bobby66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    947
    Character
    Paper Wait
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorika View Post
    Yup.... Tanking.... Not DPSing and Killing a boss... But taking it's hit and survive them.
    Not the same thing.

    So it's not your role to take down the boss.


    Really, i really hope it didn't take you long to process all this.... it would be a shame otherwise.
    What exactly is your problem? Please point where I was rude towards you, or do you just act this way with anyone that disagrees with you because unfortunately you have no argument against why should a player just give up ilbecause people are dead.

    It is not the fault or the players that SE designs fights and classes in such a way where they can achieve certain things that should not be possible.

    Fights should have enrage mechanics 100% but a player not giving up is not holding a group hostage.

    Edit: Before you say something like the community should be willing to take the time to help others learn and improve. That is not the role of the community, community members can agree to do so, but not everyone has to agree to such standards. At face value all that happened was a pair of tanks just played out the fight. We going to really tell players it is not okay to try because x amount of people are dead or it would be quicker to reset it? Asking people to give just give up just does not sit well with others and some wish to see something to the end. Is this really wrong?
    (3)
    Last edited by Bobby66; 08-07-2024 at 03:20 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Lorika's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2024
    Posts
    385
    Character
    Kaeline Artelus
    World
    Phantom
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 74
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby66 View Post
    Edit: Before you say something like the community should be willing to take the time to help others learn and improve. That is not the role of the community, community members can agree to do so, but not everyone has to agree to such standards. At face value all that happened was a pair of tanks just played out the fight. We going to really tell players it is not okay to try because x amount of people are dead or it would be quicker to reset it? Asking people to give just give up just does not sit well with others and some wish to see something to the end. Is this really wrong?
    Do you realize what you are saying?
    (9)

  3. #3
    Player
    TaleraRistain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    5,534
    Character
    Thalia Beckford
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby66 View Post
    Edit: Before you say something like the community should be willing to take the time to help others learn and improve. That is not the role of the community, community members can agree to do so, but not everyone has to agree to such standards. At face value all that happened was a pair of tanks just played out the fight. We going to really tell players it is not okay to try because x amount of people are dead or it would be quicker to reset it? Asking people to give just give up just does not sit well with others and some wish to see something to the end. Is this really wrong?
    It is because the needs of the entire team need to be considered and not just the desires of one or two people. If someone is new, they most likely need the practice to learn how to not die on the mechanics. Tanks that do this are denying them that ability. If there are a lot of wipes and the tank doesn't want to help instruct or be there supporting them figuring it out (which they're not required to do) then they can take a penalty and let the party get in a tank who will be what the party needs. If a tank wants to see something through to the end when they are alone, that is one thing. But in a team situation then the team as a whole needs to be considered.
    (7)

  4. #4
    Player Isala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    866
    Character
    Isala Zuntrios
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by TaleraRistain View Post
    It is because the needs of the entire team need to be considered and not just the desires of one or two people. If someone is new, they most likely need the practice to learn how to not die on the mechanics. Tanks that do this are denying them that ability. If there are a lot of wipes and the tank doesn't want to help instruct or be there supporting them figuring it out (which they're not required to do) then they can take a penalty and let the party get in a tank who will be what the party needs. If a tank wants to see something through to the end when they are alone, that is one thing. But in a team situation then the team as a whole needs to be considered.
    The only thing the group "needs" is to clear. The tanks are doing just that.
    (2)

  5. #5
    Player
    Bobby66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    947
    Character
    Paper Wait
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by TaleraRistain View Post
    It is because the needs of the entire team need to be considered and not just the desires of one or two people. If someone is new, they most likely need the practice to learn how to not die on the mechanics. Tanks that do this are denying them that ability. If there are a lot of wipes and the tank doesn't want to help instruct or be there supporting them figuring it out (which they're not required to do) then they can take a penalty and let the party get in a tank who will be what the party needs. If a tank wants to see something through to the end when they are alone, that is one thing. But in a team situation then the team as a whole needs to be considered.
    Isn't technically the objective when you queue for something is to clear the fight? Unless you are joining a learning party or something. The tanks completed the objective.

    Quote Originally Posted by HighlanderClone View Post
    I want to see a vote wipe option being implemented just to piss the crybaby egofueled tanks off.
    I mean that is one solution, personally I rather see progressively stricter enrage mechanics as the expansion goes on.
    (1)
    Last edited by Bobby66; 08-07-2024 at 07:25 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellsong View Post
    Okay boomer.

  6. #6
    Player
    Plumerian_Ariadust's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    51
    Character
    Plumerian Ariadust
    World
    Atomos
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by TaleraRistain View Post
    It is because the needs of the entire team need to be considered and not just the desires of one or two people
    This is why Party Finders exist, you set expectations that everyone would be in agreement to not waste everyone's time.
    Duty roulettes (except mentor roulette?) are there to fill bodies needed to clear content. Almost everyone there just wants their daily exp/tome/gil grind and want to be done with it.
    You want to teach new players? that's fine, just don't expect that the others would have the same objective as you.

    Quote Originally Posted by TaleraRistain View Post
    If someone is new, they most likely need the practice to learn how to not die on the mechanics.
    Learning how not to die to the mechanics can be done by making a learning PF. (There's also an option to go in with NPCs)
    Heck almost every mechanic in Valigarmanda is used and reused alot with some even used during solo duties.
    Four Arrows converging on one player? stack, Big red glowy circle on tank? tank buster, serpentine boss doing a weird circling thing? inside safe spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by TaleraRistain View Post
    []If there are a lot of wipes and the tank doesn't want to help instruct or be there supporting them figuring it out (which they're not required to do) then they can take a penalty and let the party get in a tank who will be what the party need
    If there are a lot of wipes, why not just [Vote Abandon] instead of having someone who queued for dailies leave and get a penalty.
    If you are really inclined to help newbies, you'd reach out after the duty has been abandoned and teach them with a premade party that has the same goal.
    (2)

  7. #7
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,682
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Plumerian_Ariadust View Post
    This is why Party Finders exist, you set expectations that everyone would be in agreement to not waste everyone's time.
    Duty roulettes (except mentor roulette?) are there to fill bodies needed to clear content. Almost everyone there just wants their daily exp/tome/gil grind and want to be done with it.
    You want to teach new players? that's fine, just don't expect that the others would have the same objective as you.


    Learning how not to die to the mechanics can be done by making a learning PF. (There's also an option to go in with NPCs)
    Heck almost every mechanic in Valigarmanda is used and reused alot with some even used during solo duties.
    Four Arrows converging on one player? stack, Big red glowy circle on tank? tank buster, serpentine boss doing a weird circling thing? inside safe spot.


    If there are a lot of wipes, why not just [Vote Abandon] instead of having someone who queued for dailies leave and get a penalty.
    If you are really inclined to help newbies, you'd reach out after the duty has been abandoned and teach them with a premade party that has the same goal.
    Honey this is duty finder not savage

    Nobody is going to join a learning party for vali normal
    (14)
    As a healer main in this game for nigh on 14 years all I can say is that I’m tired. My role has been eroded of complexity and expression for 3 expansions. I’ve watched the tanks do my role for me for 2 expansions and my feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.

    I have no idea who modern healers are designed for but I know now it’s not me. This is the first expansion I’m truly considering dropping the healer role and not returning, so if that was the goal- congratulations I guess

  8. #8
    Player
    Oizen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Location
    playing other games like yoshida intended
    Posts
    2,400
    Character
    Alondite Ragnell
    World
    Marilith
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    Honey this is duty finder not savage

    Nobody is going to join a learning party for vali normal
    Exactly, so why would you want the dreaded tank soloers to have to join your learning party for it through DF?
    (4)

  9. #9
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,682
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Oizen View Post
    Exactly, so why would you want the dreaded tank soloers to have to join your learning party for it through DF?
    Because wiping once or twice because you don’t know the fight doesn’t constitute a learning party

    I’d love to see you pull this shtick in a savage learning party, everyone else dies to mechanics they don’t understand and just go “sorry guys guess I’m more talented than you you’ll have to wait till the encounter kills me”, you’d be out on your ass in 4 seconds flat
    (16)
    As a healer main in this game for nigh on 14 years all I can say is that I’m tired. My role has been eroded of complexity and expression for 3 expansions. I’ve watched the tanks do my role for me for 2 expansions and my feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.

    I have no idea who modern healers are designed for but I know now it’s not me. This is the first expansion I’m truly considering dropping the healer role and not returning, so if that was the goal- congratulations I guess

  10. #10
    Player
    Plumerian_Ariadust's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    51
    Character
    Plumerian Ariadust
    World
    Atomos
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    Honey this is duty finder not savage

    Nobody is going to join a learning party for vali normal
    Exactly my point. With Duty Finder you are bound to take what you get.
    Don't complain when some people in the party don't consent to wiping and redoing the whole fight when they are just there to complete their dailies.
    Yes, I get it's nice and feels good to teach first time players but there would be a point when some would just say screw it and to get it over with.


    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    Because wiping once or twice because you don’t know the fight doesn’t constitute a learning party

    I’d love to see you pull this shtick in a savage learning party, everyone else dies to mechanics they don’t understand and just go “sorry guys guess I’m more talented than you you’ll have to wait till the encounter kills me”, you’d be out on your ass in 4 seconds flat
    We're just talking about normals here. Where does this thing about savage coming from?

    Circling back to OP. the screenshot provided is too blurry besides the LB3, party comp[WAR/DRK/RPR/VPR/MCH/SMN(?)/WHM/SCH(?)] and the timer to make anything clear besides something doesn't match up

    1) Vali normal is only sixty minutes
    2) Vali screenshot posted shows 41mins left
    3) OP claims they sat there dead for 30mins
    Quote Originally Posted by TojiSuzuhara View Post
    decided to just keep going and make us sit and watch and the encounter ended up taking almost 30 minutes.
    4) Vali was killed with 37 minutes left
    Quote Originally Posted by TojiSuzuhara View Post
    ithis was right after adds phase where i believe the boss had around 50-60% left and the clock was at 37 min left when they finally killed it
    OP misrepresented and painted the two tanks in a bad light.
    (2)
    Last edited by Plumerian_Ariadust; 08-07-2024 at 04:21 PM.

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