Tanks holding fights hostage in Roulettes

[Laerune]

If you try to prevent this nonsense with enrage timers then you will get another nonsense like tanks, who ALT+F4 after the first wipe. And then, have fun to find new tanks and waiting 30 minutes for them.


OK, seriously. The tanks do not solo the bosses because it is fun. They do it because they assume, that it will take additional 10+ wipes with this group to kill the boss. It is a simple calculation. What is better? Soloing it or wiping 10+ times more? It is what it is. If the rest of the group is dead then the tanks do not have the trust, that the rest of the group is able to kill the boss. And then they solo it. And if the bosses will get enrage timers to prevent it then the tanks will make a different calculation: What is better? ALT+F4 or wiping 10+ times? I am sure, you can answer it for yourself.



Cheers

I think a good fix would be to make it so avoidable mechanics take the same % of the tanks HP that a dps or healer loses when they fail to avoid mechanics. A tank having 8-9 Vul and still being fine, while other roles die after getting 1-2 Vul is bad game design.

[Supersnow845]

If you try to prevent this nonsense with enrage timers then you will get another nonsense like tanks, who ALT+F4 after the first wipe. And then, have fun to find new tanks and waiting 30 minutes for them.


OK, seriously. The tanks do not solo the bosses because it is fun. They do it because they assume, that it will take additional 10+ wipes with this group to kill the boss. It is a simple calculation. What is better? Soloing it or wiping 10+ times more? It is what it is. If the rest of the group is dead then the tanks do not have the trust, that the rest of the group is able to kill the boss. And then they solo it. And if the bosses will get enrage timers to prevent it then the tanks will make a different calculation: What is better? ALT+F4 or wiping 10+ times? I am sure, you can answer it for yourself.



Cheers

Honestly, I’m being completely honest here, do you genuinely believe this, like truly believe that if tanks didn’t have the power to solo bosses they’d all just alt+f4 till the party kicks them

Because I’m sorry but this is quite literally the most asinine take I have ever seen on this topic given we have 10 years of history of the game where the ranks couldn’t do this and there wasn’t an endemic of baby tanks who’d rather shut off the game than wipe a few times to get a clear

If this is genuinely what you’d do if they nerfed sustain or made enrages then please kindly never play a tank again

[Larirawiel]

Honestly, I’m being completely honest here, do you genuinely believe this, like truly believe that if tanks didn’t have the power to solo bosses they’d all just alt+f4 till the party kicks them

I do not believe it, i know it. Because it already happens sometimes. After the first wipe, someone leaves the group. Because there is no trust, that the group will clear the content quickly.

Because I’m sorry but this is quite literally the most asinine take I have ever seen on this topic given we have 10 years of history of the game where the ranks couldn’t do this and there wasn’t an endemic of baby tanks who’d rather shut off the game than wipe a few times to get a clear

If this is genuinely what you’d do if they nerfed sustain or made enrages then please kindly never play a tank again

Players take always the path of least resistance. If leaving a group makes it easier to reach the goal instead of wiping 10+ times on a boss then many people will do it, sorry. I play also many other MMOs and everywhere it is the same. And i do not think, that FF14 players are so special.



Cheers

[LianaThorne]

I do not believe it, i know it. Because it already happens sometimes. After the first wipe, someone leaves the group. Because there is no trust, that the group will clear the content quickly.

Genuinely haven't seen this at all since DT launched and I've been doing content ranging from normal dungeons to savage almost every day. I won't say this wasn't correct at a point in time (I remember it happening more often in Endwalker) but I genuinely can't think of a recent time where someone left early (outside of myself since I've been dealing with a death in my family and have had to be on call). Maybe I've gotten lucky with all of my groups but I highly doubt I'm that lucky to just consistently dodge impatient groups and never see it at all anymore. Perhaps the minority now are the ones who feel the way you do, which is fair enough.

[LianaThorne]

I know some of ya'll on here against this just want to watch the world burn and bait people since that's the trend of this forum, but ya'll are reaching with your logic harder than usual to a cringe level and you might want to check that.

[Karious]

Judging from this dudes signature, he just hates tanks and wants to punish them because how of healers have been treated.

[Supersnow845]

Judging from this dudes signature, he just hates tanks and wants to punish them because how of healers have been treated.

Wrong again sweetie, I play tanks plenty and I’m enjoy tanking quite a lot. I just don’t believe in immortality bestowed on me for having the transcendent skill level of pressing the blue role before i queue for a duty

I do not believe it, i know it. Because it already happens sometimes. After the first wipe, someone leaves the group. Because there is no trust, that the group will clear the content quickly.



Players take always the path of least resistance. If leaving a group makes it easier to reach the goal instead of wiping 10+ times on a boss then many people will do it, sorry. I play also many other MMOs and everywhere is it the same. And i do not think, that FF14 players are so special.



Cheers

Is it possible to learn this apparent clairvoyance that when one wipe happens you can immediately see it’ll lead to 10 more

In a trial or normal raid the path of least resistance is never leaving unless you have more time than attention span

[Larirawiel]

Is it possible to learn this apparent clairvoyance that when one wipe happens you can immediately see it’ll lead to 10 more

It is not clairvoyance, it is experience. Again, the tanks would not solo the bosses if they knew, that wiping and trying again would be faster. They simply assume, that it will be way slower because it will not be only one wipe. If you prevent this then they will simply leave the party and find another one. As a tank, you just wait seconds and the next content pops up. And yes, that's unfortunate for other roles, that tanks have this position of power. But it is what it is.



Cheers

[Toutatis]

Judging from this dudes signature, he just hates tanks and wants to punish them because how of healers have been treated.

I love to play tank but he is right. Atm high level tanks have a ridiculous self sustain to the point that I consider them broken. It should not be possible to clear synched and current content with just the tanks. The worse is that it doesn’t even take skill nor great gear, it’s just that easy. On normal content, you can even collect vuln stacks for fun and ignore them. The balance is totally off.

[kaynide]

This comes ups enough for me to have a canned response to it.. so just imo:

Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

It’s not a player’s fault the game is badly designed in this way. Also, nothing stopping you (any “you”, not anyone specific) from asking to reset.

1) ToS: It's not against policy to solo the fight

It is not against the ToS to solo a fight once the party wipes.

People can disagree on how to play, and can/should discuss it in a civil manner. Do note that specifically telling a player, including a tank, that they’re not allowed to play their job as it is designed IS against ToS. Asking and discussing is encouraged, forcing others to play how you want to play is not.

And before you say “but the tank is forcing you to sit and watch!”, they are not. It is not their job to keep you alive. And it is certainly not their fault that you died.

If a healer refuses to raise you, then sure, you might have a case.

Now if you wanna talk about what’s polite, then sure, the tank probably SHOULD kill themselves and rest the fight, but it is important to distinguish between set rules and polite manners.

2) My solution: Give Tanks Raise

Hear me out:

The problem (including #healerstrike) is that the healer role is just not that fun or challenging, and generally unneeded for a LOT of content.

Imho, it is because the devs painted themselves into a corner:
1) If you make it so healers are crucial, then there's too much pressure on when/if they die, which..
2) Makes people not want to play healer so...
3) You make the tank able to survive without a healer, even though it takes forever.

This is easily alleviated by giving raise to more jobs so that the healer can die without much penalty, as long as someone else can "save the day" by raising the healer.

This would allow enemies to hit harder and allow healers to die if they screw up, but not cause a single healer death to sour the duty for everyone (aka healer dies and we all die...or we all just sit here for 10 minutes waiting for the tank to solo)

3) Tl;DR:

1) Make Mobs hit a LOT harder. Like the vuln debuff you get for not avoiding a boss attack? Straight up 25% damage per stack (4th time no dodge? you 100% dead!)
2) Give tanks raise
3) Allow healers to die, and be raised mid boss.

This makes healers:
A) need to focus on healing over DPS, even in trash packs
B) makes the tank survive at best 20% of a boss’s hp bar. They would NEED to focus on raising their healer.