Bring Back Kaiten

[RyuuZero]

Kaiten was nothing like tendo. You used kaiten for every midare and that's all there was to it. It didn't have anything to do with raid buff windows. It was just part of the rotation. You are missing my point.

So Kaiten wasn't a Potency Increase? Also Kaiten could be used on all Weaponskills, not only Midare, Kaiten Higanbana, Kaiten Ogi, Kaiten Tenka also where things Samurai did, you apparently not. Hell! even if you failed with Kaiten! Kaiten Enpi still was stronger than a Normal Enpi!

Kaiten you heard 4 sword swooshes and looked down at your fidget spinner and knew something was about to go down. Every single time you cast midare. There was no instance where you'd use it for anything else in single target. If you didn't hear the four swooshes before midare all it told you is that you misplayed. I am pretty sure I asked for the removal of kaiten because I thought the animation was gaudy.

comparing Kaiten's Animation to fidget spinner? tells about your age^^ Kaiten also contains a Diagonal motion which fair get's eaten mostly be the Animation Cancel but! saying that "Kaiten only was used on Midare" is flat out ignorant since you also
used Kaiten on Ogi!

The 1 min senei is separate from ikishoten and only costs 25 kenki. It will not make drift worse lol. Can you please think about the meaning of your statements before making them? It's clear you're posting this one based on feeling and nothing else. Now kenki is only used for oGCD damage spikes. We have 5 different attacks with kenki that's more than enough. There will always be complainers, and sure you're entitled to complain.

Yepp, Senei/Guren shouldn't be combo'd with Ikishoten Anymore though in Endwalker you could combo those. Since Ikishoten gave you 50 (and Ogi Ready) 25 of those 50 Kenki could be used on Senei/Ogi since Ikishoten and Senei/Guren were both 2mins.
Now with Zanshin, this doesn't work anymore since Zanshin costs 50 Kenki (just like Guren in Stormblood, or Senei/Guren in Shadowbringers), with Ikishoten giving you 50 Kenki and Zanshin taking 50 Kenki, There is no Kenki left over.

[RyuuZero]

You already know how I feel about kaiten so it's pointless for me to beat the dead horse any further.

And you know how I feel about Kaiten, so why are you here?

What do you mean like level 80 or boss fights? I said who was using shoha stacks explicitly on single target? Then you go on to say that "ofc you use shoha II for dungeon pulls".

What do I mean with lvl80 and Boss Fights? Don't you know that Shoha was added in Shadowbringers and was Single Target? since Patch 5.1 you blasted Shoha every 3rd Iaijutsu (incl. Tsubame!!) on the Boss!
That got Expanded in Endwalker with an AoE Option with Mumyo Shoha, so you can use Shoha on AoE. In Dawntrail Shoha II got removed and Shoha is Geirskogul now, thus SAM losing the ability to focus the Shoha Stack on just one Target.
Which is something a Dragoon wouldn't give a shit about.

They removed the single target option because it was button bloat for the sake of button bloat. I'll tell you what's likely to happen next too, they will remove guren and kyuten. Here's how they should do it too: senei becomes a conal aoe, shinten becomes a linear aoe.

So Agency = Blutton Bloat, I get ya ^^ and the other stuff is just showcasing the DRG Design Scheme in Full Force

Sam has too many buttons as is. It would be better to remove these "choices", it doesn't feel meaningful or good to press a different button to spend kenki. It's not skill, it's bloat.

Well yeah SAM has too many buttons for you! But for those who wanna something else than DRG, who want to master the Way of the Blade, become One with the Battlefield, For those should Samurai be an Option. Same for those who want crazy positional requirements who should play Monk or those who wanna experience an Melee Magic User should play Ninja.. Not everything should end on a Line AoE with Falloff Damage

[HikariKurosawa]

Sam is nothing like dragoon what are you even talking about at this point?

[RyuuZero]

okay then.. why is Dawntrail Shoha a Line AoE with Fall off Damage like Geirskogul then?
Why doesn't Samurai deserve to have agency over what they wanna hit and what not to?
I repeat myself: The Reason for merging Shoha and Shoha II was a desperate plea to Bring Back Kaiten!
Why desperate? because Now the Samurai has an entire resource to spend on one action even though in the Past the Samurai showed mastery to apply that one resource onto multiple situations.
But same with NIN who got their Trick Attack turned into an AoE, This marks the Death of Single Target and nuanced Combat Design

[RyuuZero]

Tsubamegaeshi has been disconnected from Meikyo Shisui!!!
Such a Good Change! Though Tendo is still tied to Meikyo.. and yeah I can live with that but the side effect of Tendo being tied to Meikyo is that Meikyo has to be used in the AoE Rotation of SAM and Meikyo in AoE just feels off, man..

am also not a fan of the potency decrease of the Weaponskills.. but I can see how they could compensate that.. maybe with a 20 Kenki Skill that turns the following Weaponskill Direct Hit and turns the next Iaijutsu into Tendo?? I mean.. 20 Kenki for Tendo Direct Crit sounds cool and fair to me(!) on lvl100.

[Inosaska]

I still have the ability on my bar and I hope it returns in some form in the future for us to use it.

[jonimated]

As a current Viper main I would like to formally apologize to all the Samurai, past and present.

When Kaiten was first removed I was firmly in the camp of "It's just a maintenance ability you use on the same thing every time. Just add the extra damage to the skills themselves and be done with it." I was completely oblivious with how the removal of what seemed like a simple maintenance mechanic could change the feel of a job so drastically.

I was wrong. With the removal of Noxious Gnash I have been humbled. I hope all the Samurai who want Kaiten back get it back. I hope all the players who have had a button or mechanic removed from their jobs under the guise of "button bloat" or "simplification" get back what they lost.

[Quor]

As a current Viper main I would like to formally apologize to all the Samurai, past and present.

When Kaiten was first removed I was firmly in the camp of "It's just a maintenance ability you use on the same thing every time. Just add the extra damage to the skills themselves and be done with it." I was completely oblivious with how the removal of what seemed like a simple maintenance mechanic could change the feel of a job so drastically.

I was wrong. With the removal of Noxious Gnash I have been humbled. I hope all the Samurai who want Kaiten back get it back. I hope all the players who have had a button or mechanic removed from their jobs under the guise of "button bloat" or "simplification" get back what they lost.

Appreciate it bro. It's sadly quite easy for many people to reduce things down to "it's just a button you press before another button" without realizing that EVERY button is just a button you press before another button. In order for skill expression to exist there has to be a fail state, and I feel for those VPR's that lost that little bit of optimization joy in their rotations. I imagine it's what I felt on SAM when I perfectly nailed my rotation such that I had three Sen going into buffs with Tsubame 2s from cooldown, firing off a Midare right as the buffs appeared on my bar and then following it up with a seamless Kaeshi, putting Tsubame back on cooldown without missing a beat, then hitting Meikyo into Gekko into Higanbana, refreshing the DoT right as it dropped off.

Lining Gnashing timings up in such a way that you could double Awaken without worrying about losing the debuff probably felt pretty damn similar. Just that raw satisfaction of knowing you timed it all perfectly and with all your ducks in a row you're about to drop the damage hammer in perfectly optimized fashion.

[RyuuZero]

As a current Viper main I would like to formally apologize to all the Samurai, past and present.

When Kaiten was first removed I was firmly in the camp of "It's just a maintenance ability you use on the same thing every time. Just add the extra damage to the skills themselves and be done with it." I was completely oblivious with how the removal of what seemed like a simple maintenance mechanic could change the feel of a job so drastically.

I was wrong. With the removal of Noxious Gnash I have been humbled. I hope all the Samurai who want Kaiten back get it back. I hope all the players who have had a button or mechanic removed from their jobs under the guise of "button bloat" or "simplification" get back what they lost.

no hard feelings, man. even I lvled Viper to max and damn! my Viper Glamours are fire!

[RyuuZero]

with 7.05 they nerfed the Potencies of SAM to liberate Tsubamegaeshi from Meikyo Shisui which greatly enhanced the Feel of SAM's Gameplay.

Funnily enough, they could do this again! Nerf the Weaponskills once more and give agency to the Player to boost those nerfed Weaponskills with Kenki, how it used to be.

they just did it with Tsubamegaeshi, but I want that they also do it with Kenki itself, since that's how it used to be and what some people will bring back to Samurai.

I, for example rather sit on 20 Kenki to boost my next Weaponskill/Iaijutsu/Ogi (or Enpi, if I feel fancy) instead of sitting on 25 Kenki for Senei because it is ready in like 25 to 10 seconds.. and spend it on Shinten outside..

additionally, here is my Perfect-ish Samurai:

• Kaiten is back on lvl52 as first Kenki Skill with a 20 Kenki Cost and applies Direct Hit to the following Weaponskill and additionally gets The Tendo Trait at lvl100
• Meikyo Shisui stays how it is because enabling Iaijutsu that fast is strong enough
• Tsubamegaeshi will be rolled up with Iaijutsu, just how Ogi Namikiri and Kaeshi Namikiri currently works.
• Gyofu gets removed for a trait that removes the Kenki Cost of Gyoten and Yaten

this doesn't address everything but most stuff to make the SAM play even better.