Just got done leveling....

[Arcell]

I understand how frustrating and downright depressing it can be trying to find a group pre-30. Even after that alls we can look forward is a pretty short ride from there to cap. Not much deviation in available mob clusters so you get a healthy over dose of Ants, Raptors, and Wolves.

That is why we need to stop going about this half foot in half foot out and up the bar a little. In FFXI when you finally made it to 10 after soloing in suburbs of your home city everyone had to make the great pilgrimage to the Dunes. That was a memoric journey in and of itself and even once you arrived at white bloom eye ruiner vacation beach you still had to contend with getting EXP.

Now I played some FFXI back in the day and went through that same experience you just described. I don't recall anything memoric about it, nor would I call it a pilgrimage. Frustrating is a bit of a better word. I did it all solo up until the dunes so my experience wasn't exactly the best. And even then it wasn't exactly great. Just like in FFXIV, there are a lot of shitty parties out there that make you not want to party ever again.

Not going to lie it was a big hurdle. Yet I feel it was necessary. It shook new players out of the solo play mind set and got them thinking about how they skills and ablilties could make the PT function better. Once from there the freshly sunburnt noobies had graduated into slightly less suckery noobies, but at least they are making progress. And progress is good for building a sense of self worth in time expended on leveling.

Again, good players will do what you described. Good players will look for ways to be more useful in a group setting. Good players will build up their skills. Bad players will do none of that, regardless of how they level. Likewise, good players will do all of those things regardless of how they level.

We need to slow down the leveling process. Really make players feel the weight of their EXP and how it is going to flow. Instill the notion that leveling is not going to be fast but it can be progressive. Let them earn their levels. Entice them with new WS they finally get to use and spells that will make them even better at their vocation! This will give players more job identity. Allow them to take pride in their choice and the effort they put in to level it.

Though my leveling was quick I still felt a sense of achievement upon completion. I still looked forward to every new WS I got. I thought of how those would make me better. That's because I'm a good player. Bad players will do none of this.

I will, however, agree that leveling could be slowed down a bit. Not to FFXI levels but I think maybe 3 weeks to a month from 1-50 is reasonable enough. 45-50 shouldn't take hours. The 1-25 range is so quick that we don't get to make use of Shposhae or any of the lower level content.

As you make the game world harder the players will rise to the occasion. If you can PL to the finish. Or even straight grind it in a few days. You take away the opposition which binds us together. I've noticed people are much less willing to lend a hand in this game. There are still people willing to assist total strangers but there is a very noticeable trend of, "Me first, you maybe." (If at all) I blame this on the Devs soft balling the dangers and obstacles that should stand in our way. One may think that if everything is easier and people get stuff done faster they'll have more time to help others. Right?

Nu uh

Again, good players vs bad players. If you make a game challenging, good players will rise to the occasion. However good players will also better themselves without the need of a specific challenge. Good players will take the time to help others if they need it.

I loved helping people in FFXI. It gave me great joy to escort a new players past the aggro mobs on their first passage to the dunes. Help them into the Mines to farm the items for their sub job. Teach them how to attain their Chocobo License. I jumped at the chance to assist others because I *knew* how hard it would be alone. By that I mean damn near impossible. You'll hear ex-FFXI players tell you about the community of the game. How it was unlike anything you'd find in other MMOs. That was a product of NEEDING each other! I mean really really needing a full PT to get much of anything accomplished. It may have been perceived as a hassle from an outsider's viewpoint but we loved it. I feel many of you would as well after the shell shock wore off.

I've had people say the exact thing about the community (in-game) of FFXIV. We've had people join up in our LS who have told me that they love how the sense of community is coming along in the game and how it's still so much better than most MMOs.

I would have to disagree with 100% NEEDING a group to get anything done though. It should be an efficient way to get things done, a better way to get things done and should really only be 100% required in end-game. This game was designed for a more casual audience so things will keep going in that direction. An emphasis on both solo and party content being viable means of making at least some progress.

Imagine a FFXIV where people were always willing to PT up for much wanted EXP. Where you had dozens of leveling locations as you grew higher and had to traverse across the entire world in your quest for power. Where each hour you put in actually mattered and it was a show of strength and resourcefulness when you capped.

This is more of an issue with lack of content due to the game being rebuilt from the ground up. We'll have more things to do in time, just need to be patient. Also people currently ARE willing to PT up a lot of the time for XP.

I suppose the point I am trying to make is this.

Leveling up is suppose to be a major part of the Final Fantasy Experience. It is critical that we cultivate this venue of the game before End Game. While I agree the leveling process right now is very badly implemented and I got a ton more enjoyement out of FFXI grinding. For the simple fact it actually felt like I was accomplishing something and becoming better at my job. There is still much to be learned and gained from partying these levels by the sweat of your own brow. It is paramount that we don't allow ourselves to become complacent with the idea of just PLing to the finish before the REAL game begins. It is cutting out so many potential encounters with friends and LS members alike that at the end of the day we are going to sit back and think to ourselves. "Where is all the comradely? Where is that feeling of being a part of a greater whole? Where are those awesome memories I want to cherish?"

PL doesn't make you a bad player. Leveling "legit" doesn't make you a good player. Personal motivation to be better at your role makes you a good player. I've leveled some classes legit, I play them well. I've had some classes PL'd to 50 and I can play them well. There are many people who I've seen level "legit" who have absolutely no idea what they're doing at all.

Leveling is part of the journey but it shouldn't be the major experience of the game. Interesting mid-game content would be one of those things. Honestly though, I've had more enjoyable experiences and fond memories solely from end-game than I do from any mid-game content or leveling. In fact almost all of my bad experiences with FFXIV are from leveling groups. I share memories with people that I like playing with, pretty much my LS. Didn't have to level "legit" to get them. I feel we have a good amount of comradery going in our group and some of us PL'd.

I found just a few in that great grind back there. I hope I get a chance to form so new ones.

Question is, with the current trend of lack luster sense of challenge, will you?

I'm glad you had a good experience, however you must understand that you are in the vast, vast minority there. I think you're the first person I've ever heard tell a story about enjoying a long leveling party. Pretty much everything I've ever heard, along with my own experiences, has been negative. Part of the reason I don't do random groups or anything really outside of the LS is because of this.

[Zaaku]

I'm glad you had a good experience, however you must understand that you are in the vast, vast minority there. I think you're the first person I've ever heard tell a story about enjoying a long leveling party.

You've made some decent points and there will always be 'bad' players who cap out regardless and I'm sure there are people who've learned how to do a good job even after being PLing 90% of the way. Those are what I like to call exceptions. Just by virtue of basic logic if you make the process in which one must undertake more challenging, take longer, and require them to actively participate. You will train people to become and more adept at the task. Those who are not suited for it will drop out or be denied PT's since they will gain a reputation for not being able to handle their responsibilities. Not to mention it will not be fun for them if they repeatedly fail to accomplish what their role is designed for. Someone can fake it for a few days of leveling but hardly 4-5 weeks.

What you say is may be true in the general sense but making the standards more adversarial will thin out those radical numbers and give us a more stable population of people you can rely on.


Also while I respect your opinions I must make one small correction to your post. It is in fact the poeple who want faster, easier, less difficult leveling process that are in the minority. As per the latest Forum poll. Most people here enjoy having a hard time

[Arcell]

Also while I respect your opinions I must make one small correction to your post. It is in fact the poeple who want faster, easier, less difficult leveling process that are in the minority. As per the latest Forum poll. Most people here enjoy having a hard time

If you're going to bring up that horribly biased excuse for a "poll" that most people didn't vote on because the options were awful, I can't take you seriously anymore.

I agreed that leveling should be a bit slower. I don't think anyone wants it to be even faster. I said you were in the minority of people who have had good partying experiences "legit" leveling.

[Krausus]

Just by virtue of basic logic if you make the process in which one must undertake more challenging, take longer, and require them to actively participate. You will train people to become and more adept at the task. Those who are not suited for it will drop out or be denied PT's since they will gain a reputation for not being able to handle their responsibilities. Not to mention it will not be fun for them if they repeatedly fail to accomplish what their role is designed for. Someone can fake it for a few days of leveling but hardly 4-5 weeks.

What you say is may be true in the general sense but making the standards more adversarial will thin out those radical numbers and give us a more stable population of people you can rely on.


Also while I respect your opinions I must make one small correction to your post. It is in fact the poeple who want faster, easier, less difficult leveling process that are in the minority. As per the latest Forum poll. Most people here enjoy having a hard time

you forgot to mention this post

Like this post if you are tired of the same thing over and over again and think that the dev probably don't care either abouts this type of threads.

which beat out both the want longer or keep the same.

You have to keep in mind that player made polls are alway and I mean always the minority, only a fraction of the majority actually use the forums so you cant use that even close to fact. Hell I spend a lot of time on these forums and I skipped over that thread just because of the title alone.