[SAM] I hate the change to Tsubame-gaeshi

[RyuuZero]

so , sam got all potencies reduced but added the 30s buff for Tsubame-gaeshi Ready.....idk if i like this trade

It's an okay Trade

Wasn't the whole point of TG that it the duplication was supposed to be exciting? How do they remove Kaiten for being action bloat and yet turn TG into nearly the same (just capitalizing instead of preparatory)?

I would much rather have just had TG reverted to its Endwalker state or had Meikyo's TG unlock last for 60s and until consumed (instead of, bizarrely, until just after it has the *opportunity to* be consumed).

It's funny, imo 7.05 SAM plays better than 7.0 SAM but(!) Tsubamegaeshi kinda doesn't justify it's own button anymore.. I mean I wrote a Macro that I should test and share for other Samurai players to test, I named it:

Lv.100 Iaijutsu:
/macroicon Iaijutsu
/ac Iaijutsu
/ac Tsubamegaeshi

feel free to copy and test it please.. it should effectively turn Iaijutsu work just like Ogi does currently.

[geebster]

Wasn't the whole point of TG that it the duplication was supposed to be exciting? How do they remove Kaiten for being action bloat and yet turn TG into nearly the same (just capitalizing instead of preparatory)?

I would much rather have just had TG reverted to its Endwalker state or had Meikyo's TG unlock last for 60s and until consumed (instead of, bizarrely, until just after it has the *opportunity to* be consumed).

Kaiten actually provided more gameplay since it was the main thing you managed your Kenki around. Tsubame has NOTHING to pay attention to, its now just a bloat button that follows Iaijutsu every time.

[CamuiKushi]

it just me or does this just say the same thing twice?

I've done this before. Reworded something and forgotten to remove the original sentence (in this case, paragraph).

[Naizakane]

Kaiten actually provided more gameplay since it was the main thing you managed your Kenki around. Tsubame has NOTHING to pay attention to, its now just a bloat button that follows Iaijutsu every time.

Unlike 7.0-7.01, using a GCD other than Tsubame doesn't result in you losing Tsubame-gaeshi Ready. Every time you use Midare, you have at least 3 options for how to use the Tsubame you just got over the next 30 seconds:

1. Do you immediately spend it?
2. Do you hold it for a situation in the next 30 seconds where max melee is unsafe for longer than a gcd, or another situation where the boss is out of range? (Remember: Your combos are 3y, but Midare/Kaeshi is 6y)
3. Do you hold it for the next 2 minute window, aiming to sneak another Midare's worth of potency into that window?

As much as I liked to Just Press The Button, Kaiten didn't offer much beyond "do I use it on this next Iaijutsu or do I choose to do less damage on purpose?", which, when compared to the 3 options for new Tsubame that I've made use of in the 12 hours following the change, is kinda boring. Making sure you had enough Kenki for Kaiten takes as much thought as it does now to make sure you have enough Kenki for Senei and Zanshin: You'll only be too low on Kenki to use it if you're playing wrong.

[Shurrikhan]

Unlike 7.0-7.01, using a GCD other than Tsubame doesn't result in you losing Tsubame-gaeshi Ready. Every time you use Midare, you have at least 3 options for how to use the Tsubame you just got over the next 30 seconds:

1. Do you immediately spend it?
2. Do you hold it for a situation in the next 30 seconds where max melee is unsafe for longer than a gcd, or another situation where the boss is out of range? (Remember: Your combos are 3y, but Midare/Kaeshi is 6y)
3. Do you hold it for the next 2 minute window, aiming to sneak another Midare's worth of potency into that window?

These parts are good, and largely what was long since requested, yes...

• In Shadowbringers, many asked to have TG either (A) always just copy your most recent Iaijutsu, without needing to immediately follow it, or (B) be consolidated with Iaijutsu, showing the cooldown as a ring around Iaijutsu without greying it out, and be available anytime you were at 0 Sen (since you could not at that time cast Iaijutsu anyways).
  
  
• In 7.0, many asked to have TG Ready linger for up to a minute after Meikyo and copy the latest Iaijutsu without needing to immediately follow it.

But, the "Every Iaijutsu is a TG-Iaijutsu!" came out of nowhere.

As much as I liked to Just Press The Button, Kaiten didn't offer much beyond "do I use it on this next Iaijutsu or do I choose to do less damage on purpose?", which, when compared to the 3 options for new Tsubame that I've made use of in the 12 hours following the change, is kinda boring. Making sure you had enough Kenki for Kaiten takes as much thought as it does now to make sure you have enough Kenki for Senei and Zanshin: You'll only be too low on Kenki to use it if you're playing wrong.

I don't think anyone ever thought of Kaiten as a decision. It was instead a way to offer some slight skill expression through gauge margining. Though, that was a lot more impactful when it had a supportive context, such as a 50-gauge Senei/Guren, the 15 gauge Seigan, etc.

[Quor]

I don't think anyone ever thought of Kaiten as a decision. It was instead a way to offer some slight skill expression through gauge margining. Though, that was a lot more impactful when it had a supportive context, such as a 50-gauge Senei/Guren, the 15 gauge Seigan, etc.

This is a great point. Kaiten was never a decision, but it did add complexity when you had other uses for the Kenki gauge. Now with everything being some variation of Shinten (aoe Shinten, cooldown Shiten, cooldown aoe Shinten....) you simply can't get complexity from the Kenki gauge. However, the change to Tsubame now adds the possibility of, as another person I saw put it, "smuggling" Iaijutsu from one part of the rotation into another. Something like saving a Tendo Kaeshi from the 1-minute burst and dumping it into the 2-minute window under buffs is now possible, and certainly supports skill expression for those who are so inclined to pursue it.

[Valence]

Still at work, so still going of the patch notes themselves for now, but...

Wasn't the whole point of TG that it the duplication was supposed to be exciting? How do they remove Kaiten for being action bloat and yet turn TG into nearly the same (just capitalizing instead of preparatory)?

I would much rather have just had TG reverted to its Endwalker state or had Meikyo's TG unlock last for 60s and until consumed (instead of, bizarrely, until just after it has the *opportunity to* be consumed).

This is the fell cleave virus, it's been consistently applied to half the job roster at this point. Why press a big nuke only once when you can do it twice, or thrice, or even five times in a row to make a point?

[AmorfaVex]

Im just not sure the flexibility makes up for all the potency nerfs.

Anyone that is good with the numbers able to convince me?

[Thyrand]

I love these changes honestly, it adds complexity by pooling another resource on your even bursts, its more flexible overall and square its pushing freestyling over looping like it was originated intented, but I feel like the potency nerfs, especially on Senei and Zanshin were a little too much to compensate for these changes, just revert ogcd nerfs and I think we got the best iteration of Sam since StB

[AsiTsurugi]

Im just not sure the flexibility makes up for all the potency nerfs.

Anyone that is good with the numbers able to convince me?

I believe the 7.05 changes are a very small, but overall buff despite all the potency reductions across the board. However, concrete numbers are still being worked on, so should get a better idea of how much increase in damage this is. That being said, I do love these changes because it brought back old flexibility of Tsubame but then the devs went "no this is not the whole thing, have ALL of the flexibility", and it just feels so good to play now. Still miss Kaiten though