Viper Changes Thread - Share your thoughts

[Komarimono]

It was gameplay though. You had to keep track of the debuff duration and your Dreadwinder Cooldown to make a conscious decision of either using Dread Fang or Steel Fang as your GCD in the string. No matter how "small" that bit of gameplay was, in a game where many classes are devoid of such things, it was a breath of fresh air, and it had to go because we are not allowed to have a class that requires even a bit of attention.

Like I said, it was a debuff ya tracked, nothing more. Ya tapped one button... To refresh it if needed. Went into the combo you wanted, then finished the previous combo. So ya save 2 seconds with the changes(Assuming all other buffs up first)

I honestly don't see, keeping track of one debuff as a core of the Job at all. The combos and positionals are what's core to me. Press one button before changing to next combo, to then finish previous combo wasn't what Viper was... Not that I saw at least.

Know what I did see? On certain fights where you have to reapply it anyway, since unable to reach boss in time, to then go into the combos you actually needed.

[Kersplosion]

They finally add an upkeep oriented mechanic after years of removing them, and then ditch it after a month because feedback from *somewhere* pointed toward people not being good enough for "too hard."

I genuinely dislike this change, the job was better on release.

Melee hasn't been this fun for me since Ninja in Midas.
I've been playing bard since 2.X and was tired of it getting its upkeep mechanics removed, so I was happy to move to viper.

Overall I'm really tired of the nuance of status upkeep and maintenance getting removed, and that removal being celebrated while the people who liked it are told to move to another lane, when there pretty much aren't any left.

[Crafoutis]

I'm thankful Noxious Gnash is gone. I hate having to maintain arbitrary debuff upkeep, it's not fun or challenging, it's just boring busywork.

[Lamarcy2699]

Like I said, it was a debuff ya tracked, nothing more. Ya tapped one button... To refresh it if needed. Went into the combo you wanted, then finished the previous combo. So ya save 2 seconds with the changes(Assuming all other buffs up first)

I honestly don't see, keeping track of one debuff as a core of the Job at all. The combos and positionals are what's core to me. Press one button before changing to next combo, to then finish previous combo wasn't what Viper was... Not that I saw at least.

Know what I did see? On certain fights where you have to reapply it anyway, since unable to reach boss in time, to then go into the combos you actually needed.

Because it still gave you something to think about, especially before doing 2 Reawakens. Sure, you can boil a lot of things down to "why keep it if it's just press button anyway" but you're taking something that was very crucial to VPR. Something that added more of a skill ceiling to it than whatever just having positionals does. You had to be careful of overcap but also mindful to have enough for double Reawaken every 120s. It wasn't a lot but it sure made the job feel much better than it does now. Now it has nothing and a lot of the pace of VPR is just missing because you have nothing to keep track of any more.

[Komarimono]

Because it still gave you something to think about, especially before doing 2 Reawakens. Sure, you can boil a lot of things down to "why keep it if it's just press button anyway" but you're taking something that was very crucial to VPR. Something that added more of a skill ceiling to it than whatever just having positionals does. You had to be careful of overcap but also mindful to have enough for double Reawaken every 120s. It wasn't a lot but it sure made the job feel much better than it does now. Now it has nothing and a lot of the pace of VPR is just missing because you have nothing to keep track of any more.

What was there to think about? Do I have 12 seconds left on debuff? If Yes, Reawaken Combo. If No? Hit Dreadfangs, then hit Reawaken Combo. Finish 123 Combo, by time second combo Finished, need to re-apply if Dreadwinder is ready. Dreadwinder not ready? Tap the button, go into Dreadwinder combo, then finish 123 combo.

I'm not seeing the complexity here. Ya just saw if ya had 10-12 seconds left, depending on what ability was about to be off cooldown. And I've never seen an overcap, or ever see a reason to.

[Magusware]

It really wasn’t deep… at all. It was just a decision point. That’s it. Do I delay or not delay. It didn’t really add any complexity.

It’s weird how people in this game pretend that these classes have some deep hidden layer to them. This isn’t a deep hidden layer game. A lot of things are pretty surface level.

In fairness, when it comes to FFXIV job design lately, that's deep.

[Kersplosion]

You realize that you're admitting in your post, a thought, that you no longer have to have. And that one thought across a fight is an aspect of engagement that is now missing. It adds up.

[Colt47]

The main things I'm noting right now is that the job got a bit more punishing on failing to hit the right ability, since without having the hanging dps buff like what reaper has most of the bonus damage has to come from the existing buffs and the combo bonuses. Also this is probably the first time I've ever gotten into a situation where it feels like there can be too many things lit up on the hot bar. Making viper a continuous dragoon combo is not a particularly great idea since the idea is to guide the player into using death rattle and would have preferred if they kept it loose.

[Leonus]

Because it still gave you something to think about, especially before doing 2 Reawakens. Sure, you can boil a lot of things down to "why keep it if it's just press button anyway" but you're taking something that was very crucial to VPR. Something that added more of a skill ceiling to it than whatever just having positionals does. You had to be careful of overcap but also mindful to have enough for double Reawaken every 120s. It wasn't a lot but it sure made the job feel much better than it does now. Now it has nothing and a lot of the pace of VPR is just missing because you have nothing to keep track of any more.

It was only crucial because it HAD to be to achieve higher damage output. It wasn’t crucial because it was a key or core mechanic. Now if they removed reawaken or something like that… I could empathize with that argument. I can’t empathize because it was nothing more than death’s design in a combo. That was it.

It’s just a debuff. That’s all it ever was, and all it ever would have been. If it was an actual DOT, I could probably empathize too.

[AurorBorealis]

Right now the JP forums are a bit miffed by the Viper changes as well. Most of the posts are saying that the viper class designer should have stuck to their design philosophy. This is the Japanese equivalent of being spammed with "No balls lol".
Other posts mention (correctly) that one month is too short for analyzing player feedback and they should have waited longer before making such a big change.

Rare JP and West agreement moment.