Viper Changes Thread - Share your thoughts

[ovIm]

Well, we know nothing will get reverted, so time to just adapt.

All this does, is make it that we can ignore re-applying before starting a combo string.

Previously would be like, ok.... few seconds left, just tap Dread Fangs button, apply debuff, go into combo wanted, then just finish the 123 combo to get Death Rattle.

Now it's just go into combo without worrying about debuff timer. Wasn't any skill involved really, and on some bosses if didn't apply debuff before running out of mechanics, you had to re-apply it anyway. It was not a core feature of the Job imho. Just something we pressed as needed, they simply removed needing to press it to do our main Job of combo dancing.

It was gameplay though. You had to keep track of the debuff duration and your Dreadwinder Cooldown to make a conscious decision of either using Dread Fang or Steel Fang as your GCD in the string. No matter how "small" that bit of gameplay was, in a game where many classes are devoid of such things, it was a breath of fresh air, and it had to go because we are not allowed to have a class that requires even a bit of attention.

[Leonus]

It was gameplay though. You had to keep track of the debuff duration and your Dreadwinder Cooldown to make a conscious decision of either using Dread Fang or Steel Fang as your GCD in the string. No matter how "small" that bit of gameplay was, in a game where many classes are devoid of such things, it was a breath of fresh air, and it had to go because we are not allowed to have a class that requires even a bit of attention.

It wasn’t major enough to be anything I would consider close to a “breathe of fresh air”. It was just something else to track.

Which is fine, some people enjoyed it. I was numb to it. It didn’t add anything for me when it came to enjoyment of the class. It was pretty empty if I’m being honest.

To some others, it appeared to be some top level gameplay or something.

[zaya_moya]

it was actually deep when you try to max your DPS, there are a lot of nuances. now the job is absolutely empty and boring.

[Leonus]

it was actually deep when you try to max your DPS, there are a lot of nuances. now the job is absolutely empty and boring.

It really wasn’t deep… at all. It was just a decision point. That’s it. Do I delay or not delay. It didn’t really add any complexity.

It’s weird how people in this game pretend that these classes have some deep hidden layer to them. This isn’t a deep hidden layer game. A lot of things are pretty surface level.

[Magusware]

It really wasn’t deep… at all. It was just a decision point. That’s it. Do I delay or not delay. It didn’t really add any complexity.

It’s weird how people in this game pretend that these classes have some deep hidden layer to them. This isn’t a deep hidden layer game. A lot of things are pretty surface level.

In fairness, when it comes to FFXIV job design lately, that's deep.

[zaya_moya]

It really wasn’t deep… at all. It was just a decision point. That’s it. Do I delay or not delay. It didn’t really add any complexity.

It’s weird how people in this game pretend that these classes have some deep hidden layer to them. This isn’t a deep hidden layer game. A lot of things are pretty surface level.

The pretty surface level is to say "Do I delay or not delay."
In reality, there were a lot of nuances:

For example, you could use Dread Fangs (now Reaving Fangs) or Dreadwinder (now Vicewinder) to apply Noxious Gnash with different consequences depending if you had Reawaken soon or two Reawaken and if you go into Reawake you could continue your basic rotation if you out of it in time or not or you go Uncoiled Fury rotation, or you can go Dreadwinder rotation. Or maybe you want to cast Serpent's Ire and drop combo rotation. And there is only one correct choice to maximize DPS from all possible choices. Also, it played well with watching other buffs because they could run out too. If you do it incorrectly you just simply do more CDs than you need and you will lose DPS because combo fail. Also, combine this with boss mechanics and watching what the boss was doing and it was pretty deep and enjoyable.

[Leonus]

The pretty surface level is to say "Do I delay or not delay."
In reality, there were a lot of nuances:

For example, you could use Dread Fangs (now Reaving Fangs) or Dreadwinder (now Vicewinder) to apply Noxious Gnash with different consequences depending if you had Reawaken soon or two Reawaken and if you go into Reawake you could continue your basic rotation if you out of it in time or not or you go Uncoiled Fury rotation, or you can go Dreadwinder rotation. Or maybe you want to cast Serpent's Ire and drop combo rotation. And there is only one correct choice to maximize DPS from all possible choices. Also, it played well with watching other buffs because they could run out too. If you do it incorrectly you just simply do more CDs than you need and you will lose DPS because combo fail. Also, combine this with boss mechanics and watching what the boss was doing and it was pretty deep and enjoyable.

That’s because it is what it was.

People are pretending as though it’s deep, it wasn’t. It never would have been. People are turning into something that it’s not. The fight itself dictated way more than the debuff ever would have. However, do I delay or not delay is what noxious nash can be boiled down to. Just about every time.

[Colt47]

That’s because it is what it was.

People are pretending as though it’s deep, it wasn’t. It never would have been. People are turning into something that it’s not. The fight itself dictated way more than the debuff ever would have. However, do I delay or not delay is what noxious nash can be boiled down to. Just about every time.

The gist of it is the game designers want all the decision making on the fight end and make the jobs have minimal decision making. This is to limit the benefit of clearing specific fights and then having that knowledge carry over to the next set of fights since they want to control how fast people clear content. In fact, most of what they are doing is for more control over the clear rates and how difficult content is that they are pushing. It's one of the pains of a live service game: The goal is to keep someone paying as many sub fees as possible or making as many lootbox / gacha spins as possible while still being enough of a game to be enjoyable by the player. But that is getting a bit off topic at this point.

[Komarimono]

It was gameplay though. You had to keep track of the debuff duration and your Dreadwinder Cooldown to make a conscious decision of either using Dread Fang or Steel Fang as your GCD in the string. No matter how "small" that bit of gameplay was, in a game where many classes are devoid of such things, it was a breath of fresh air, and it had to go because we are not allowed to have a class that requires even a bit of attention.

Like I said, it was a debuff ya tracked, nothing more. Ya tapped one button... To refresh it if needed. Went into the combo you wanted, then finished the previous combo. So ya save 2 seconds with the changes(Assuming all other buffs up first)

I honestly don't see, keeping track of one debuff as a core of the Job at all. The combos and positionals are what's core to me. Press one button before changing to next combo, to then finish previous combo wasn't what Viper was... Not that I saw at least.

Know what I did see? On certain fights where you have to reapply it anyway, since unable to reach boss in time, to then go into the combos you actually needed.

[Lamarcy2699]

Like I said, it was a debuff ya tracked, nothing more. Ya tapped one button... To refresh it if needed. Went into the combo you wanted, then finished the previous combo. So ya save 2 seconds with the changes(Assuming all other buffs up first)

I honestly don't see, keeping track of one debuff as a core of the Job at all. The combos and positionals are what's core to me. Press one button before changing to next combo, to then finish previous combo wasn't what Viper was... Not that I saw at least.

Know what I did see? On certain fights where you have to reapply it anyway, since unable to reach boss in time, to then go into the combos you actually needed.

Because it still gave you something to think about, especially before doing 2 Reawakens. Sure, you can boil a lot of things down to "why keep it if it's just press button anyway" but you're taking something that was very crucial to VPR. Something that added more of a skill ceiling to it than whatever just having positionals does. You had to be careful of overcap but also mindful to have enough for double Reawaken every 120s. It wasn't a lot but it sure made the job feel much better than it does now. Now it has nothing and a lot of the pace of VPR is just missing because you have nothing to keep track of any more.