Viper Changes Thread - Share your thoughts

[Taranok]

I don't think it will be harder to play. I think it will be harder for people who were already struggling because this change doesn't help anything in terms of the visual design of the class. You'll have just as much stuff to look at, so you removed it for no reason.

Also, I don't need you to explain to me that you could drop the enhanced combo finisher. You can look at my logs if you wanna know how much I know about Viper. But is it really so bad that it was not good to just spam Uncoiled Fury for no reason? Was it really that bad to have to keep track of your combo finisher's timers? Dropping it only lost you 100 potency. Why does it have to be IMPOSSIBLE to mess up in this game?

I LIKED coming out of Reawaken and having to choose between using Uncoiled Fury, Dreadwinder, or continuing my combo. I LIKED looking at the timer. I LIKED having to think about LITERALLY ANYTHING AT ALL. And regardless of your thoughts about Noxious Gash, it was one of the only things this job had to do in filler.

This change is buns.

You won't have to stare at boss debuffs, for one. That's a pretty big win since all of your pertinent UI information is available in the class UI or on your hotkeys themselves. And you may have liked looking at your UI to choose which thing to refresh next. I personally was whatever on it and was mostly expecting combo finishers to be extended since that's the only trap I regularly walked into. But the devs have actual metrics, actual data on what's happening on vipers. And this was clearly a pretty major problem if they'd devote the first major patch to removing noxious gnash and increasing buff timers to delete this problem. But hey, you got to keep positionals that have entire bosses and boss mechanics that ignore them anyways.

[W00by]

You won't have to stare at boss debuffs, for one. That's a pretty big win since all of your pertinent UI information is available in the class UI or on your hotkeys themselves. And you may have liked looking at your UI to choose which thing to refresh next. I personally was whatever on it and was mostly expecting combo finishers to be extended since that's the only trap I regularly walked into. But the devs have actual metrics, actual data on what's happening on vipers. And this was clearly a pretty major problem if they'd devote the first major patch to removing noxious gnash and increasing buff timers to delete this problem. But hey, you got to keep positionals that have entire bosses and boss mechanics that ignore them anyways.

You're right: the devs do have player metrics about Viper. Player metrics that show that it was the most successful job launch the game has ever had and the current most popular job. Surely Noxious Gash wasn't a "huge problem" keeping people from playing the class, right? Otherwise, it wouldn't have quadruple the amount of Ninjas playing right now. Even Pictomancer is struggling to keep up and it's ALSO a shiny new DPS job. There was no reason to change it so soon. In fact, plenty of people that might've liked Noxious Gash didn't even get to finish leveling the job to 100, so who knows what they would've thought? Certainly not Square's "actual metrics."

And, for the record? A month ago, they also thought it would be a good idea to remove positionals, and feedback showed them that they were wrong about that. So their "actual data" clearly isn't infallible. If that change was wrong, this one could be too.

And it is, for what it's worth. (Also, imagine complaining about having to stare at boss debuffs. You can move where debuffs are and even set it so only yours show up... this would never be prohibitive to someone who actually took the time to set up their class. And it's not like Viper is the only one who ever has to.)

[Nickypooh]

It's not as bad as I thought it would be personally, I thought positionals would go first when they meant busy but I was wrong guess a debuff is too much.

Noxious Gnash removal ham-strings a core loop of how the job played and it was introduced far better than Reaper's Death's Design which is even more hilarious.

[AvoSturmfaust]

Im honest, i dont really like the Changes, im quit against it but i accept it, its overall a Damage Increase and gives possibilitys for new stuff, so lets see how it turns out sooner or later, i dont let the Change destroy the Fun i have with my Dual Wield Class

[Broenwyrn]

....People look at the vipersight gauge? I've never looked at it. I don't even know what any of it means.

No seriously, I know it has something to do with the combos, but all I see is colors and flashing without any idea what any of it means. Not that it matters, because I just press the flashing button that takes me to the finisher that consumes the buff.

I mean regardless, more than disliking it, I just don't understand this change. Just... Why? Why not just remove a few positionals, or give NG a little extra duration or.... Anything, really. Other than this.

[Rhael]

....People look at the vipersight gauge? I've never looked at it. I don't even know what any of it means.

Apparently people do? The gauge is completely worthless outside of tracking Uncoiled Fury charges, so I neither look at it nor do I know what it even means. I have no idea why people look at the thing. I've been wishing for a way to hide it since the moment I unlocked the job.

[wildvenonat]

So ignore it. It was core to how viper felt to play, which was more important than viability in casual content.

There is another foray coming later in DT and Delubrum Savage is not particularly casual. It's extremely likely there will be another equivalent later this expac.

In theory I'd like to ignore it, but as long as the buff cap remains at 25, "increases damage dealt by one specific person" debuffs are pretty obnoxious. If it was a dot it'd be fine. If they fixed buff culling issues that would be far better. "Vipers exist in this 48 person raid, but they might be dead and so this debuff might be providing absolutely no utility to anyone" is not a good use of a buff slot.

[Lamarcy2699]

There is another foray coming later in DT and Delubrum Savage is not particularly casual. It's extremely likely there will be another equivalent later this expac.

In theory I'd like to ignore it, but as long as the buff cap remains at 25, "increases damage dealt by one specific person" debuffs are pretty obnoxious. If it was a dot it'd be fine. If they fixed buff culling issues that would be far better. "Vipers exist in this 48 person raid, but they might be dead and so this debuff might be providing absolutely no utility to anyone" is not a good use of a buff slot.

You're confusing buffs and debuffs for the player and a boss. Buffs/debuffs on the player have a max cap that is easily reached, just look at TOP, buffs/debuffs on bosses have a display of 30 and a max of 60. Meaning your hypothetical falls flat with the very change viper got. More buffs on the player is more problematic than more debuffs on the bosses.

[Lamarcy2699]

Absolutely awful, they don't know what they're doing and they keep changing jobs I enjoy. I'm tired of it.

[EponaTBHSMH]

I have no idea where SE gets their feedback from but from this its pretty clear they don't take it from NA forums