Feedback: Dawntrail MSQ dungeon difficulty

[Jaxtaro]

If this is how you feel, then you do you, but, as someone who helps people thru content that is much harder than MSQ Dungeons, you really could *just ask* someone you know, or someone from your FC, for help finishing MSQ.

Let's be fair...the abuse and cruelty that has been infecting these threads are representative of people who they get grouped with using the daily roulettes. There is a persistent myth that people are helpful and glad to assume a mentor's role, but that's only true for a subsection of people. The real level of tolerance for incompetence is much lower than the stories we like to tell ourselves.

I'll never forget in the first week of DT, I did a roulette and got a Tower of Zot duty while playing my machinist. There was, like every Zot roulette in the first week of DT, a pictomancer and a really bad sage who though he was way better than he was, told the tank to W2W, and was surprised that the tank died while not healing. The pictomancer was ganking aggro on every pull and blaming the tank, even though we all later learned that it was a problem that merited a fix on tank aggro, so the two actually decided that a votekick was the answer. I declined and they both then bailed. I never told the tank because it would have been cruel, and no one needs that kind of ghosts the next time they queue, but I don't buy the "just ask, everyone's glad to help" line any more.

Is that representative of everyone? Of course not, there are truly helpful people who are willing to go out of their way to help, but there are also toxic sludgepools who have been representing themselves on these threads and on Reddit spectacularly who are one of the reasons why people cringe about stressful content.

[Besame]

I have a problem with this, like, sure you're allowed to express your opinion regardless of your condition, but people are allowed to disagree with you nonetheless. :P
I don't think they had any ill intention, I think they just misread it as you having a condition, I also did at first. Also you're not helping by being super reactive and immediately spitting vitriol. x_x

I see a problem with making trusts too easy too, it will create a barrier between trusts and playing with other players, which might not affect you, but would create problems for a lot of new players.
The way trusts are built too, like, you can make several mistakes, but you're sure that you know the mechanics enough to get by in the fight with players once you come out the other end.
Considering the amount of players, like, any change they make will have unforeseen consequences like that, no matter how innocuous it is, so I'd err on the cautious side if it was my decision. So many variables and different players to consider. x_x
Like, not necessarily disagreeing, just exposing that it might seem like it has no consequences to you, but you can't really foresee that, I'm sorry.
Feels obvious that catering more and more to the lower end of players (reducing the difficulty and complexity of classes, content and mechanics over time) would leave players in the middle of the spectrum in the dust, for example, but they didn't foresee this and overdid it. (According to Yoshi P himself)

And I mean, obvious comment that it's a mmo primarily, sure they want solo players to be able to experience a good chunk of the game, but their focus is still multiplayer content, especially with Dawntrail.
Makes sense that they would make bridging the gap between playing solo and with players as frictionless as possible.

In a more general sense, it's also totally legit to realize it's not what you're looking for, and seek experiences that better match what you actually are looking for.
I don't believe any game has to be all inclusive ? It's honorable to take small steps on the dev's side and I applaud that, but it's also honorable to realize your limitations and let others who don't have them have their content.
There's games I absolutely can't play because I am prone to gambling addiction, everything that is gacha and such is completely off the table. I don't ask for the removal of this system in Honkai, I just don't play it lol. I'd really like to, tho. :P

I think you misunderstand. I do not care what your "problem" with my thoughts are here. They are the only way to get in Square's face with like-minded people and provide feedback. Your text opinions matter not. If I don't verbalize to Square that I would like something changed, shame on me. I am not here telling you that you are right or wrong so you might want to spread the BS where you'll think it works, it does not work here with me.

[Maalik]

I got attacked on another thread for suggesting such, but I had more of an issue with the solo instances in Dawntrail than any of the raids or dungeons.

[Medbread]

1. Zodiark "Astral Eclipse" from Endwalker.
2. The Neir raid fight with the black and white blocks
3. Ultima the high seraph has some weird off-screen mechanic that kills me and I never see where it comes from.
4. Tower of Zot's Sanduruva, specifically Manusya Confuse. I'm on the autism spectrum, and have some difficulty picking up body language and facial expressions. The differences in the poses are too subtle for me to pick up and process this mechanic. To me they all just look the same. I'm unable to do this mechanic on my own, and have to follow the trust NPC's or follow a player and hope they run to the right spot.[/COLOR]

I can kind of understand 1 and 2 if you have a disability.
I can't even remember 3 because I think every time I hit the Orbonne Monastery in Roulettes, I shut my brain off and come out of it having cleared it.
4 though, I can try to offer a bit of advice; Stop trying to look for minute details with the poses. When they drop, every single one will be moving, the safe one stands completely still. Like, it doesn't even do an idle animation, it's literally I-posing. I don't know how your autism affects you, so this might not be possible for you, but once I see "Manusya Confuse" on the castbar, I usually zoom all the way out (I always am fully zoomed out in combat anyways) and then DON'T focus on any particular one. The one that isn't moving will usually catch my attention and stand out.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

I got attacked on another thread for suggesting such, but I had more of an issue with the solo instances in Dawntrail than any of the raids or dungeons.

But as you stated you cleared the solos on very easy albeit after a few tries. Very easy doesnt mean that you don't have to learn the fight. It just means you get a buff to your attack, def? and hp. Is it really a big deal if you dont complete a duty/instance first time? Part of the enjoyment of 14 is getting your ass kicked, learn what you did wrong and try again...

I can kind of understand 1 and 2 if you have a disability.
I can't even remember 3 because I think every time I hit the Orbonne Monastery in Roulettes, I shut my brain off and come out of it having cleared it.
4 though, I can try to offer a bit of advice; Stop trying to look for minute details with the poses. When they drop, every single one will be moving, the safe one stands completely still. Like, it doesn't even do an idle animation, it's literally I-posing. I don't know how your autism affects you, so this might not be possible for you, but once I see "Manusya Confuse" on the castbar, I usually zoom all the way out (I always am fully zoomed out in combat anyways) and then DON'T focus on any particular one. The one that isn't moving will usually catch my attention and stand out.

What I dont understand is where disability has suddenly entered the equation, I don't remember any posts on it when Coil or alexander normal was kicking peoples ass or when people was wiping to Progenitrix and Progenitor and lets not forget Demon Wall, Aurum Vale and Dzemael Darkhold. As for end of story bosses/trials they have always been there at this current difficulty Titan/nidhogg/shinryu/hades and their corresponding story cap dungeon.

So now it's leaving me with the thought that we had become that easy during Endwalker that anyone's 80 year old gran can complete it with her crippling arthritis and lobster claws. Now we have those people complaining.

[Kiurt]

No. This game is for everyone, including those with social anxiety. It is up to other players to be kind and supportive because that's what decent people do. We lift each other up, we don't tell them to get lost if they struggle.

Sadly, this is not how reality works. Not every game is for everyone. Not every genre is for everyone.
Souls games being the perfect exemple of that.

[VioletCatastrophe]

What I dont understand is where disability has suddenly entered the equation

People are using faux progressive language to use disabled people as a gotcha while ignoring the fact that most disabled people aren't having an issue with the content and in many cases love the feeling of overcoming adversity. The other case is when someone is using their own disability as an excuse, and rather than come up with strategies that work within their disability, they demand that any and all friction be removed from the content to accommodate them at the cost of all of the non-disabled people, which as a disabled person on this fine disability pride month is deeply distasteful for me.

Even factoring in disabled people, the content is not and never will be so hard that a disability will stop you. I genuinely think I could make it through any of the Arcadion normal fights with just a single finger, as an example. I wouldn't be doing much damage, but the content doesn't have an enrage anyway. Taking away a space for disabled people to overcome a challenge in a controlled way (which is a very cathartic experience) and making the experience worse for non-disabled people for the sake of either a personal issue or the theoretical concept of disabled people is just really entitled to me.

People just need to accept that clearing content first time isn't the norm when that content is at your appropriate challenge level. Challenging content should challenge you, and I do think that the MSQ being challenging for the most uninvested and low skilled (and these are not meant as pejoratives!) players is a good thing, because it lets them feel accomplished in the content that is aimed at them!

[Absurdity]

What I dont understand is where disability has suddenly entered the equation, I don't remember any posts on it when Coil or alexander normal was kicking peoples ass or when people was wiping to Progenitrix and Progenitor and lets not forget Demon Wall, Aurum Vale and Dzemael Darkhold. As for end of story bosses/trials they have always been there at this current difficulty Titan/nidhogg/shinryu/hades and their corresponding story cap dungeon.

So now it's leaving me with the thought that we had become that easy during Endwalker that anyone's 80 year old gran can complete it with her crippling arthritis and lobster claws. Now we have those people complaining.

Even leaving the disability arguments out of it, I find it very odd that the game is suddenly in danger of "casuals" leaving in droves when it doesn't cater to the absolute lowest common denominator anymore that consistently digs a tunnel under the already low skill floor.
We had harder dungeons and harder job gameplay in Heavensward, Stormblood and arguably Shadowbringers, somehow the "casuals" managed to still complete content just fine.
(I put "casual" in quotation marks because being casual is not synonymous with being so bad at the game and unwilling that you haven't learned the basics after 90+ levels)

[Besame]

I got attacked on another thread for suggesting such, but I had more of an issue with the solo instances in Dawntrail than any of the raids or dungeons.

They luv, luv, luv to attack what they do not agree with even though it may be just suggestions. Sound familar?? Now we are chastized, hummiliated, bullied and berated for simple opinions. Sounds like woke finally reared their ugly heads in game.

[Saraide]

I think the core problem people have is a lack of knowledge and a misunderstanding of how to play their role. Take the person struggling with the lvl 99 dungeon for example. You can point at all the faults they have like scuffed hotbars, slow reaction time, bad rotation, etc but what truly prevented them from clearing is a faulty understanding what to prioritize and a complete misconception how fights in this game are designed. They thought as a healer they should stand as far away from the boss as possible and that the melee zone is very dangerous. This is based on absolutely nothing and if you asked them why they thought that you only got vague nonsense back, in essence a lack of understanding that standing close to the boss often gives you the best oppurtunity to dodge in any direction since melees generally need to have the chance to get to safe spots aswell.