Feedback: Dawntrail MSQ dungeon difficulty

[Bearskjold]

So I just wasted an hour in the Alexandria dungeon. I say wasted, because I spent most of that hour wiping with my NPC party on the first boss and then force closed the game mid-fight on the second one out of sheer frustration. Never before have I literally dreaded seeing a dungeon pop up in the MSQ the way I have in Dawntrail, but each one has gotten progressively more frustrating. I, like many others I imagine, play this game primarily to enjoy the story. And while DT's story hasn't exactly been my favorite, I have been enjoying the way it unfolded in the later half of the game yet having to struggle through increasingly difficult dungeons, I find myself questioning whether it's worth completing at this point.

I am admittedly an older gamer. My days of hardcore mythic/savage raiding are behind me, in part because I recognize that I just can't keep up with the increasing pace of fight mechanics. I'm completely capable of learning and reacting to mechanics, but there needs to be time to react. By the time you see the telegraph on the ground in these fights, it's already too late to get to where you need to be.

I have ZERO interest in playing Dark Souls or Elden Ring, but it feels like that's the direction the devs are pushing with these new dungeons. And while I recognize there is a portion of the playerbase that wants that, locking MSQ behind dungeons with that kind of difficulty punishes the rest of us.

I suggest that if these new fast-paced dungeons are indeed the direction Square Enix wishes to go with the game, that they add another difficulty setting to dungeons. By all means, give the hardcore action game folks their twitch reaction difficulty, but also make a normal level for the rest of us. You don't need to remove any mechanics, just increase the reaction time for them. Hell, I'd be happy if at least the NPC groups were altered to fit this, because right now, even the damn NPC's are struggling to keep up!

[TheRealQuah]

I bet you do the solo instances on very easy mode

[Bearskjold]

I do them on normal actually, but thanks for your nonconstructive response.

[PunkyPewster]

Bearskjold:

Don't let these players get you down. Your opinions are valid and just as valuable as the former WoW players who have brought to this expansion their predictable poison to our good community. Casuals comment on dungeons; elitists insult players.

[Ori]

So I just wasted an hour in the Alexandria dungeon. I say wasted, because I spent most of that hour wiping with my NPC party on the first boss and then force closed the game mid-fight on the second one out of sheer frustration. Never before have I literally dreaded seeing a dungeon pop up in the MSQ the way I have in Dawntrail, but each one has gotten progressively more frustrating. I, like many others I imagine, play this game primarily to enjoy the story. And while DT's story hasn't exactly been my favorite, I have been enjoying the way it unfolded in the later half of the game yet having to struggle through increasingly difficult dungeons, I find myself questioning whether it's worth completing at this point.

I am admittedly an older gamer. My days of hardcore mythic/savage raiding are behind me, in part because I recognize that I just can't keep up with the increasing pace of fight mechanics. I'm completely capable of learning and reacting to mechanics, but there needs to be time to react. By the time you see the telegraph on the ground in these fights, it's already too late to get to where you need to be.

I have ZERO interest in playing Dark Souls or Elden Ring, but it feels like that's the direction the devs are pushing with these new dungeons. And while I recognize there is a portion of the playerbase that wants that, locking MSQ behind dungeons with that kind of difficulty punishes the rest of us.

I suggest that if these new fast-paced dungeons are indeed the direction Square Enix wishes to go with the game, that they add another difficulty setting to dungeons. By all means, give the hardcore action game folks their twitch reaction difficulty, but also make a normal level for the rest of us. You don't need to remove any mechanics, just increase the reaction time for them. Hell, I'd be happy if at least the NPC groups were altered to fit this, because right now, even the damn NPC's are struggling to keep up!

Agreed on every point. I am the same way.
It is not too difficult. But the way they want me to learn is extremely frustrating and un-enjoyable.

They could have done a much better job.

As well there is no reason to lock themselves behind 1 difficulty setting. Why not just have a story mode? As well. Why not offer extreme/hard right away for those who want it? They are creating all of this discourse over difficulty for no reason. They could make everyone happy at once and they literally choose not to by believing they have to have 1 difficulty for all.

[Alluneve]

Agreed on every point. I am the same way.
It is not too difficult. But the way they want me to learn is extremely frustrating and un-enjoyable.

They could have done a much better job.

As well there is no reason to lock themselves behind 1 difficulty setting. Why not just have a story mode? As well. Why not offer extreme/hard right away for those who want it? They are creating all of this discourse over difficulty for no reason. They could make everyone happy at once and they literally choose not to by believing they have to have 1 difficulty for all.

My brother in Hydaelyn, Normal mode dungeons ARE the story mode.
it's why Extreme and savage exists, because SE does not expect everyone to be able to do Extreme or savage

[Alyx-Greywind]

I actually logged in to post because I feel so strongly about this I can't really stay quiet. I've been playing FFXIV for a fair few years now, I consider myself average at best but I'm also a disabled gamer who has built up an FC with a partner I met within the game itself. I've tackled Extremes and tried Savages despite my disabilities and I've pulled my own weight even if I have struggled. I've had my daily roulettes to go to for casual content and it's been fun, running as a Healer I will say I've actually found myself a little bored at times however I've never had a problem because I understood if I wanted more difficult content I have access to it, everyone does outside maybe the most recent Ultimates, Extremes and Savages can be tackled in Party Finder so easily.

Which is why when I was greeted with Dawntrail and it's new difficult curve I gotta say it's pushing me away. I can handle the mechanics after a spot of failure up until the optional dungeon Strayborough Deadwalk. This single Dungeon has exhausted me not only because of it's sheer difficulty spike but because it's uninventing, its unfriendly and downright far too punishing for for casual content. Even if I can get behind the mechanics, even if I get them down and can push through with my disabilities it's so exhausting to play through on a daily basis if I do get it because I don't just have to worry about myself but other new players, other casuals or players with disabilities worse than my own.

What am I met with when I bring up how unfun this content difficulty is? "Use Trusts" "Get Good" "You don't need to do this content lol." even when I do offer actual criticism. This difficulty is misplaced, it's not welcome by quite a number of players, players that are worried that the upcoming Raids will be just as harsh and unforgiving. We've had Extreme and Savage difficulties for so long now, why are we bothering to put this level of difficulty into the casual side of the game? Funny thing is I actually agreed things should be made more difficult, ShB and EW Extremes were easy as it is... but that's where the difficulty should be, not in our daily Expert Dungeons.

Personally I hope this content gets nerfed, I hope it becomes more accessible to more players because if they double down on the difficulty you'll be seeing a lot more casuals drop the game over time.

[Katachthon]

"Use Trusts" "Get Good" "You don't need to do this content lol."

You know what kind of players will dominate this game if this trend continues. I have seen many a game experiencing this.

It is simple: more grinding and unforgiving mechanism -> competitiveness and toxicity prevail; less grinding and unforgiving mechanism -> collaboration and friendship grow.

Yoshi-p has a choice, so do we all.

To those who mock casual players who have better things to tend to in real life: What are you afraid of?

The falsehood of the sense of superiority? From a Small Small dungeon? Your refusal to understand the Main Story?

You are entitled to enjoy the game your way, but not entitled to talk about other players in such a mean fashion.

Get good in your etiquette, please. How other players play the game is none of your business.

[SoftCarryBoy]

"Use Trusts" "Get Good" "You don't need to do this content lol."

You know what kind of players will dominate this game if this trend continues. I have seen many a game experiencing this.

It is simple: more grinding and unforgiving mechanism -> competitiveness and toxicity prevail; less grinding and unforgiving mechanism -> collaboration and friendship grow.

Yoshi-p has a choice, so do we all.

To those who mock casual players who have better things to tend to in real life: What are you afraid of?

The falsehood of the sense of superiority? From a Small Small dungeon? Your refusal to understand the Main Story?

You are entitled to enjoy the game your way, but not entitled to talk about other players in such a mean fashion.

Get good in your etiquette, please. How other players play the game is none of your business.

I am afraid of spending another 3 years falling asleep while doing my roulettes because the content is boring as hell and not entertaining. Hope this answers why it's good that we're getting better fight designs now. If I can dodge all these fast aoes when playing at 300ms ping, then so can others with similar handicaps.

[celfhelp]

"Use Trusts" "Get Good" "You don't need to do this content lol."

You know what kind of players will dominate this game if this trend continues. I have seen many a game experiencing this.

It is simple: more grinding and unforgiving mechanism -> competitiveness and toxicity prevail; less grinding and unforgiving mechanism -> collaboration and friendship grow.

Yoshi-p has a choice, so do we all.

To those who mock casual players who have better things to tend to in real life: What are you afraid of?

The falsehood of the sense of superiority? From a Small Small dungeon? Your refusal to understand the Main Story?

You are entitled to enjoy the game your way, but not entitled to talk about other players in such a mean fashion.

Get good in your etiquette, please. How other players play the game is none of your business.

this is a smidge hypocritical and manipulative, and frankly, this smells more like a superiority complex than any of the "get good" responses do

if you are trying to convince devs to stop innovating and progressing, or if you're dying endlessly to the same mechanics over and over because you can't be bothered to get yourself together, then how you play the game becomes everybody's business because you are the one being "toxic"

sure, people could be a bit nicer about it, but no one is required to be nice about anything. the real world is decidedly not nice an overwhelming majority of the time, and no online space is required to be a little insulated pocket of fantasy

if you're not good enough at your job, you lose your job. if you get in an accident because you're bad at driving, you have to pay for repairs. if your house explodes because you left the stove on, you don't have a house anymore. if you don't rest when you're sick, you delay your recovery

alternatively, do you know what makes communities everywhere grow stronger? adversity. what brings humans together unlike anything else? struggle

this has a double meaning here because:

1. sometimes people aren't nice and that's a good thing, because end of the day, conflict breeds collaboration and abrasion breeds resilience and strength

2. harder challenges to overcome breeds more communication and collaboration surrounding how to overcome the challenge

both of these are objectively good and constructive things, and "toxic" people only take over a community if the "non-toxic" people leave

if you're that worried about "toxic" people, find ways to overcome them; don't waste yourself becoming just like them via moral grandstanding and putting yourself and your views on a pedestal



the online realm and especially modern online gaming has coddled people a little bit (a lotta bit) too much, but it's scenarios like this one that help spark growth out of that stunted, naive space. you have to find the value in it because it's definitely there