You pull you tank question.

[LilyPendragon]

So let me get that straight:
- As a Tank you should always wall-to-wall and be up front and let the DPS pull for you. You are a bad tank if you don't and complain that the DPS pulls for you and it's lethargic gameplay if you don't.
- You should let the DPS pull for you and you grab the aggro regardless whether you want to wall-to-wall or not, and you are a bad tank if you don't like the DPS pulling ahead and it's tank ego if you don't do that.

Phone double post

DPS shouldn't be ABLE to pull for the tank, because the tank should be already half a screen ahead of them already pulling the mobs before the idea to pull for the tank even arises.

On the 'tank has no say' thing, this isn't what people are saying. The tank isn't the only one who has any say, which is essentially what ypyt players are arguing for.

[TBerry]

Phone double post

DPS shouldn't be ABLE to pull for the tank, because the tank should be already half a screen ahead of them already pulling the mobs before the idea to pull for the tank even arises.

On the 'tank has no say' thing, this isn't what people are saying. The tank isn't the only one who has any say, which is essentially what ypyt players are arguing for.

Many tanks argue that DPS still pull regardless, but they get the blame. These people care abnout no one but themselves and theys are guilty of everything they accuse the tanks of.
And many people here do argue that the DPS are the ones who should pull. Which is why my first 2 points are directly conrtradicting.

[LilyPendragon]

Many tanks argue that DPS still pull regardless, but they get the blame.
And many people here do argue that the DPS are the ones who should pull. Which is why my first 2 points are directly conrtradicting.

I think most of the time DPS pulling is just autopilot, not a malicious thing. Hanlon's Razor would state that it is best to assume as such.

However the other side of the coin is there is nothing inherently problematic with it because if the tank is doing the job, the dps will only get hit once or twice before the tank establishes aggro on everything.

[GTK0HLK]

Many tanks argue that DPS still pull regardless, but they get the blame.
And many people here do argue that the DPS are the ones who should pull. Which is why my first 2 points are directly conrtradicting.

Which it seems you're only viewing it as the straight action. and not how it actually is in gameplay.

MANY mobs in DT and even in HW had ranged mobs that need to be pulled to the tank, cause they either didn't noticed it was not aged by them. so the dps need to pull it towards them.

Also Some Tanks view it as "Free Mitigation".
(While yes, it's a joke, it also is true)

The issue always goes back to the attitude of fringe tanks who want everything to actually bend to their whims. Rather than just jokingly do so.

And when mobs are actually Pulled, you can see a reason in Vanguard with the Bike Mobs starting their Aoe. it cuts down the time to waiting for the Tank to Round them up, so everyone can actually Aoe them down.

It's all Case By Case when it comes to the topic of the Specific Duty and what everything does.

[Some of yall, keep trying to look for examples of why it shouldn't be done. when those examples happen to be either specific situations that need or benefit from it. Including Applying Slow. Or in different angles with discussions towards other users about accidents.]

The majority Don't even pull them, but the times they are, likely are for a Fair Reason.

Again, if they have an issue with it, they should set their Concerns. But if nothing is said. Nothing can be claimed after.

[Ampheni]

Ionno, been tanking for many years, if someone start pulling ahead, I will just race them to pull more, never really bothered me. Not even hard to just pick up an extra pack or two of mobs anyway. And swole pulls are just my defacto thing to do in a dungeon run, unless healer can't keep up, then MAYBE i might consider scaling back a bit. Do people still do smol pulls?

[Conando]

I main tanking jobs, but I can't say I've seen baby pulls when I level DPS alts.

[Rehayem]

[ThorneDynasty]

Which begs the question why do people pull before the tank in the first place?

Because their timers maybe falling off, for instance, and there's zero logical reason for the party to lose the extra damage just because of the tank's ego.

[Dimi824]

YPYT people are what turn what would've been a sub 15 minute aetherfont into a 25+ minute shitshow. Tanks should be sprinting once the barrier goes down unless stated beforehand.

[Eyrilona]

Tired of dps queues I became a tank main for dungeon content (still a Dancer for raids) a few years ago, and have grown to love it. Since I am the kind of tank that will default to Wall-to-Wall unless I see my healer struggling (in which case I will ask if they'd like smaller pulls after the first one), I do not usually have to deal with people pulling more than I was planning to anyway, so if a DPS pulls ahead of me it is more a matter of timing to me. I'll have my thoughts about that, but I will always make best effort to grab enmity back anyway even if I have to chase after my dps for it, simply because only if I get them all to follow me around can I bunch them up neatly so we can spend the least time to AoE them all down before we can move ahead.

I double-tap my trash mobs to make sure single targeting dps do not pull any away from me while we're running and force me to double back when they stop running to fight a single mob, and because of that I do have to slow down for a GCD cycle on contact with the first pack, which leaves room for a dps to get ahead of me, yes, but that has in my experience been less troublesome than allowing dps in the back taking over enmity from something behind you.

The one case I have experienced that really was out there though was when it was the healer in a certain ARR leveling dungeon (when tanks do not self-sustain yet) who was constantly running away and ahead to pull more and more without ever healing me or the dps even though we were struggling and dying under the load we already had. But I kind of feel that behavior was symptomatic of something far more problematic than impatience, so I will say that yes there ARE (thankfully incredibly rare) circumstances where after you have given it your best to salvage the situation, and talked to the person in chat and gotten nothing but snide remarks, then your obligation as a tank to not let the entire rest of the party die for it starts to outweigh your obligation to always pick up all the enmity, and you can say it is justified to let a real problem player just deal with the problem of his own creation. If you can't protect all the lives, you aim to protect the most.