You pull you tank question.

[VoidsentStatus]

Okay, just going to ignore you after this, but in FF14 terms tanks and healers are the support roles. Not the DPS. Putting you on ignore now.

Forum User 1: People are normal on the forums.
Forum User 2: *says something entirely un-human/troll.*
Me: ....Strike 1/3 I guess. 2 instances away from assuming half of the people in the thread are ChatGPT AI generating posts for artificial forum traffic.

[Chiru_Kai]

Because tanking in casual content is apparently hard, let me enlighten you on the tank's rotation which you can do in like, 95% of the dungeons. The ones where you can't do it, you can easily memorize once this goes wrong:

1: press Sprint before pulling any sort of aggro. 20 seconds of zoomies!
2: ranged attack or dash into the 1st group of enemies. Your pick.
3: AOE skill once or twice to really grab their aggro.
4: Sprint should still be up for ~10 seconds or more. Run to 2nd group.
5: AOE skill them too.
6: Press any percentage mitigation (30% job mit OR 20% Rampart role mit) + enemy debuff such as Reprisal OR Arm's Length.
7: When both your initial mit+debuff drops off, pop another minor mit, lot of enemies should be weak or dead by now. Also spam your 25 second special job mitigation if it's available in the content you're doing, keep it on cooldown at all times. Yes, it's totally fine if it overlaps with the other mits.
8: The trash mobs are dead? Great. Now do it again, a wall opened up somewhere probably. Just use the other combo (ie: if you used 30% mit + reprisal first, then this next group you use the 20% mit and arm's length)

If your dps or healer is pulling ahead of you, you were not doing this.
If there are more than 2 packs, you keep on running after step 5, even if sprint runs out. In most cases you'll be fine. Notable dungeons where you can't do this though is: Aurum Vale, Stone Vigil (Hard), and Mt. Gulg.

Also a few notes:
- Bossrooms are for your big mitigation cooldowns to get back up. For bosses with tankbusters, you don't pop a big mit. Just use your job mitigation and/or reprisal and thats that.
- Invuln is also a mit. You're free to use it during trash pulls in lieu of using percentage mits. Although it might be an idea to announce it beforehand with a macro so the healer isn't wasting big heals on you.
- If you really want to feel love from your partymembers, then pull enemies into a corner so they get bundled up. Your dps and healers will love that their aoes will now hit all enemies. Also helps you, cuz it kills the mobs faster instead of having 1-2 stragglers left over.
- You can use variations of the above. Most tanks get additional job-specific mits and you can just... use them? If it's between using them inefficiently or not using at all, inefficient use is better.


That's all. You don't have to do any of this perfectly optimized. But this is fundamentals and super easy to do.

[Ryaduera]

Because tanking in casual content is apparently hard, let me enlighten you on the tank's rotation which you can do in like, 95% of the dungeons. The ones where you can't do it, you can easily memorize once this goes wrong:

1: press Sprint before pulling any sort of aggro. 20 seconds of zoomies!
2: ranged attack or dash into the 1st group of enemies. Your pick.
3: AOE skill once or twice to really grab their aggro.

Right here. This is the step where the DPS will double dash ahead and pull the next group. When just trying to hit bosses so healer regens and stuff don't pull aggro. The rest doesn't matter if the DPS can't wait the 2.5s for a GCD, especially on split groups that are wider apart than your AoE range. Once you get to this stage, the rest doesn't matter if the DPS can't wait for enough time to take a sip of water (Stay hydrated)

[Chiru_Kai]

Nonsense. I do plenty of dungeon runs as a tank. What you describe just... never happens.

And even if they did, I would just be like "okay yay, they're on the same page as me, they'll make the enemies come to us and I don't have to run much to grab their aggro = I can keep my GCD rolling more = more damage = enemies die faster = good".

What is the big deal if you were planning on grabbing those enemies anyway? The faster they are in range to grab, the better, and if DPS facilitates that then all the power to them, only helps me as a tank to do my job of tanking all enemies. Teamplay is good.

Even better if that DPS that runs ahead uses Arm's Length, so I can use Reprisal and now a whole bunch of enemies will really be a non-issue with their attacks being slowed AND dealing 10% less damage.
But I can count this on one hand across my thousands of dungeon runs where I saw this happen. Most of the time, the strat I describe doesn't allow time for anyone to run ahead anyway.

[ServantNaoya]

I don't even know how this happens. I main tank, and play it most of the time, and I've never had anyone pull ahead of me. Obviously I'm always pulling wall to wall to begin with, and at most maybe someone gets one attack on a boss before I do, but does that even matter?

The YPYT mentality made sense back in ARR and HW where tanking was actually pretty difficult, and grabbing aggro from a pack back from someone was resource intensive. In those days, pulling ahead of a tank was detrimental and put an extra load on the tank's shoulders, and it WAS typically easier to just let the person die. But I don't understand how anyone can have this mentality in this day and age. Unless some unholy scenario where a DPS steals an enemy off a pack and runs off to Narnia with it on their own to die happens, which I have NEVER experienced, what are we even complaining about?

[LuciferMournstar]

I don't even know how this happens. I main tank, and play it most of the time, and I've never had anyone pull ahead of me. Obviously I'm always pulling wall to wall to begin with, and at most maybe someone gets one attack on a boss before I do, but does that even matter?

The YPYT mentality made sense back in ARR and HW where tanking was actually pretty difficult, and grabbing aggro from a pack back from someone was resource intensive. In those days, pulling ahead of a tank was detrimental and put an extra load on the tank's shoulders, and it WAS typically easier to just let the person die. But I don't understand how anyone can have this mentality in this day and age. Unless some unholy scenario where a DPS steals an enemy off a pack and runs off to Narnia with it on their own to die happens, which I have NEVER experienced, what are we even complaining about?

This right here. Back then, yeah, YPYT was real cause it made tanking a pain in the ass. Now though, I don't care. I have DPS pull all the time, and they'll just bring them back to me and one AoE, I have hate on them all. Like you said, as long as they aren't pulling them then running off to Narnia. That or, the Healer specifically ask for "light pulls please" because they are new, redid their hotbars, or whatever to ease into it. Then if the DPS decides "Screw the tank and healer, GOTTA GO FAST!" Then I'll let them die cause they basically said "F you" to me and the healer.

[Ryaduera]

as long as they aren't pulling them then running off to Narnia.

Yeah but this is what they do. It happens once every 100 or less dungeons so honestly it's kind of a non-issue in the sense of frequency, but it happens, and when it does, let the DPS learn a thing or two about waiting literally 2.5 seconds for an AoE because I also rush as fast as I can. It's kind of hard to go faster than I can, so when someone does, it's clearly out of a reckless disregard for everyone else in the dungeon and I can't bring myself to care. I'd equate it do smoking by a public doorway. The only reason to do it is with complete disregard for the people around you. Yeah, you're allowed to, but everyones going to judge you when they walk by. And of course people can always ask them not to, like I do.

[Lannybaby]

Serious question: do any dps players ever watch their aggro meter and tab-target when their aggro is getting too high? For bosses, there's no excuse for a tank to lose aggro. But for trash packs, is there any difficulty in switching to a different target before pressing your next attack button? GG to the tank if you're pulling aggro using an AoE rotation, but all it takes is a single button to switch targets if you're doing a single-target weapon skill rotation. Granted, tanks shouldn't be losing aggro anyways, but DT burst windows seem more easily accessible than in, say, EW.

Whenever I'm on a dps job (typically DRG), I watch my aggro during the first 5-7 seconds of an initial trash pull, after the tank reaches a wall with half-a-dozen things wailing at him, then go ham afterward. If I ever get too close to pulling aggro, I switch targets unless I'm using an AoE rotation. Do people do that? Or is there some kind of thrill experienced when pulling aggro off of a tank that I'm missing?

[VoidsentStatus]

Serious question: do any dps players ever watch their aggro meter and tab-target when their aggro is getting too high? For bosses, there's no excuse for a tank to lose aggro. But for trash packs, is there any difficulty in switching to a different target before pressing your next attack button? GG to the tank if you're pulling aggro using an AoE rotation, but all it takes is a single button to switch targets if you're doing a single-target weapon skill rotation. Granted, tanks shouldn't be losing aggro anyways, but DT burst windows seem more easily accessible than in, say, EW.

Whenever I'm on a dps job (typically DRG), I watch my aggro during the first 5-7 seconds of an initial trash pull, after the tank reaches a wall with half-a-dozen things wailing at him, then go ham afterward. If I ever get too close to pulling aggro, I switch targets unless I'm using an AoE rotation. Do people do that? Or is there some kind of thrill experienced when pulling aggro off of a tank that I'm missing?

I think you've misunderstood what the situation being discussed is due to people gaslighting with situations/problems that don't exist. The DPS is not ripping aggro away from the tank in YPYT situations, these are situations where the tank never had aggro to begin with. Examples where this can happen:

- A dungeon has 2 sets of 3 adds (first 6), followed by another 2 sets of 3 adds (second 6).
- A tank makes a mistake and hits too many cooldowns on the first 2 sets of adds (the first 6). They are aware they are going to be extra squishy afterward.
- Tank pulls the first 3 adds of the second 6. He stops due to not having cooldowns and not wanting to potentially overwhelm the healer.
- The DPS runs ahead and gets in aggro range or attacks the last 3 adds and then runs back to the tank, expecting them to aoe and take aggro, which is the opposite of what the tank wanted as a situation.
- The tank does not aoe to get aggro, and lets the dps die.

- A dungeon has a 2 groupings of 3 adds, followed by 3-5 groupings of 3 adds.
- The tank does the first 2 groupings of 3 adds and realizes that the burn is slow or the healer is new and not playing at a decent skill level. They will likely die if they pull more than 2 groupings since the first 2 were rough.
- The tank pulls 2 groupings of 3 adds in the second half, stops.
- DPS runs ahead of the tank and draws aggro on 1-3 extra groups of adds, bringing them back to the tank.
- Tank isn't paying attention or tries to carry the extra pressure anyway, and dies from the extra load.
- Group wipes, tank tells the DPS that if he pulls adds in the future, he is not taking aggro.

It is not a DPS doing too much damage on a single target, it is a DPS attacking targets on their own to speed up the run, and expecting a tank to always follow and support them regardless of the consequences.

Examples of things healers do that would normally get a tank to not pull as much as they could:
- dont keep HoT up during add damage in
- dont do AoE damage
- use macro healing
- use Cure 1
- don't have Lucid Dream on hotbar
- party dps hit by conals and forcing AoE heals instead of ST
- SCH using Physick spam instead of Adlo alternating
- AST using Essential Dignity early
- WHM using Benediction at 35-50% health
- Job Quests not done yet
- SCH forgot to summon pet at dungeon start/after death
- don't know when to swiftcast heals
- don't Regen during pull gathering
- never sprint
- never DoT during pull gathering
- focus on damage too long and start healing late and can't catch the tank's health
- hasn't learned how to slidecast yet/damage timings and stops healing casts to dodge aoe's
- minimum level gear to enter the content, previous dungeon/msq gear
- lag spiking/bad fps
- bad AST Earthly Star positioning
- staying in AST Collective Unconscious Animation

[NekoNova]

Explained beautifully!
I've seen this happen several times where DPS pulled more than either the tank or the healer could handle at that moment.