Meleewalker to Meleetrail

[Asari5]

lets assume they do the same amount of dmg... what would the melees get to balance the shorter range?

and also there are a lot of phys range around in the game arent there? the role cant be that bad?

[Ruminous]

snip

The first point was an off the cuff statement. I'll stay focused on the point.

Mechanics that defines the job... So, that would be uptime or burst focused. Ranged, or melee, they fall into those categories.

I did not once pretend that mobility isn't a benefit, because being able to move and continue your rotation can be helpful. However, the benefits are rarely worth doing considerably less damage. I'm glad we can agree the balance of classes is not great, because that's been my entire point. The balance is awful.. 10-20% less dps for existing than even jobs that buff is not fun.

Yes, floors 2 and 3 have some challenges. Are they 10-20% less dps challenges? Absolutely not, especially when powerful ranged attacks and gap closers exist for melee, and instant cast abilities exist for casters. As time goes on and practice is had, you can figure out what you can and can't get away with to maximize the time you're doing something vs the time you're not. We already talked about some of Omega's mechanics, so you learned how to clear the fight on a job that has a lot of forced standing still to clear.

Just because phys ranged has had a presence in clears, doesn't mean the roles can and haven't been excluded. Abyssos had that issue and their solution was to nerf the boss health by 1%. Fixing the boss's health is a lot easier than looking at underperforming jobs and making them better unless they're just that drastically bad.

But my complaint with phys ranged: It doesn't contribute as much as it should and should contribute more. Allow them to be more competitive and not relegated to token 1% party buff. Does bard/dancer/machinist need to be at the top of the charts? Absolutely not. But let's not pretend that the gap couldn't be a bit more narrow now. We're both in agreement that the current balance is completely awful. Hell I still think black mage should be farther ahead compared to where it is now compared to picto, especially since picto brings more to the table than black mage right now. It's literally the same argument.

Maybe they'll fix the class balance in 7.05, but I'm not holding my breath. Summoner right now has got it the worst since other casters exist and bring better tools to the plate.

[Galvuu]

snip.

I mean... this is a post-ShB/EW world. Every job is 2-min burst focused.
I'm not even disparaging the rest of what you said, I'm just raising the point that SE is forcing every job into A 2-min burst archetype (which is why people have been dissatisfied with homogenization).

Also, most melee jobs cannot flex when they use their ranged abilities. RPR has to to Communio/Perfection at a certain point in their burst. It's not a real mobility tool.
The P8S door boss problem wasn't a "phys ranged problem". It was a job-balance problem, one of which was MCH. But PLD, RDM and, to a much lesser extent, RPR were also problematic. I, unfortunately, dealt with this absolute nonsense since I progged P8S week 1, and I felt the dps issues when those jobs were in the comp- having PLD/WAR/MCH/RPR was awful because beating the enrage because 50-50 at best.
And SMN is always going to be popular in virtue of being basically auto-play with a revive. It's the ultimate "focus on mechanics and ignore rotation" job. It's always been hyper-popular for prog since the EW revision for this very reason.

I know it probably sounds like I'm being abrasive and going after everything you're saying (and, in a way, I guess I am), but sometimes people post topics with a very hyperbolic wording that ends up being a half-truth and then obscure the real problems while also antagonizing other people. Physical ranged were vastly overtaxed in EW where melee uptime was not a concern (which is also part of the reason why EW balance was one of the worst ever in Abyssos), but DT is shaping to be a different landscape.
I still posit ranged and casters need help, but we can't start from a premise of "melee uptime is free" when it's looking like it's not (well, in your defense, you didn't actually say this, but I do think you're overestimating how many tools most melee and caster jobs have at their disposal to deal with some of this mechanical nonsense).

[Supersnow845]

lets assume they do the same amount of dmg... what would the melees get to balance the shorter range?

and also there are a lot of phys range around in the game arent there? the role cant be that bad?

Phys ranged is right up with there with healers for “role is only hanging on by virtue of the 1% buff”, it’s always the last DPS role to fill in a party so it’s definitely not in a healthy spot

[Lanvaldear]

lets assume they do the same amount of dmg... what would the melees get to balance the shorter range?

and also there are a lot of phys range around in the game arent there? the role cant be that bad?

Melee are suppose to do more damage in a sim because in an actual encounter, they're expected to have downtime to compensate. The issue is is that Squeenix hasn't made a fight with downtime (Unless you count times when the boss isn't even targetable for no apparent reason.. Talking to you P8SP2) since Heavensward. So Ranged lose their only advantage they have. Coupled with cast times, it makes playing cDPS abysmal. Its LOOKING like this might change with AAC (or whatever they're calling it) Savage due to smaller hit boxes and more erratic mechanics. Which is a good thing, and why I mentioned that it may be too early to tell.

[Valence]

and also there are a lot of phys range around in the game arent there? the role cant be that bad?

Unlike some I don't pick a role or job to play sorely for its total damage output and how high it ranks on the funny website's charts. Doesn't prevent me to be quite disheartened by how unfair its treatment consistently looks though. Even after so many years it still depresses me.

[GoatOfWar]

Unlike some I don't pick a role or job to play sorely for its total damage output and how high it ranks on the funny website's charts. Doesn't prevent me to be quite disheartened by how unfair its treatment consistently looks though. Even after so many years it still depresses me.

You'll find that sentiment a lot in the ongoing Dark knight threads.
Be glad they're at least not taking away all of your abilities without replacing them with anything new every patch.