Dark Knight was bad even in Endwalker but

[Claire_Pendragon]

Why is TBN DPS neutral?

because they gave the only -hp skill GNB, and somehow super bolide on DRK is considered too hard for players to handle. so instead of gambling with HP, its HP shields. Its the job identity. (which of course should have just been to give DRK super bolide. alternatively, it could have been thrill, where u can delete the max HP with another CD, rather than a shield. but for some reason they saw classic FF WAR as a healer, so it had to go to WAR)

[Oizen]

This is interesting, I will be doing just like what I did in Endwalker and test it to see how much worse it really got,because I was super disappointed by the doomposting I heard before I got DRK to 90 and realizing that its not actually bad

These TBN changes do seem rough though, though in the 2 instances Ive had to heal a DRK in DT so far, I didnt feel it to be so bad, maybe the 40% mit helps despite the MP nerf, ill report back when I get it to 100 myself and have a clearer opinion

I don't think people have realized it yet because we don't have Savages, and in the Extremes you can skirt by on Shadowed Vigil/Oblation/Rampart alone.
But yes I do truly think unless SE does something (they wont) people are going to feel like DRK doesn't have a short mit anymore, at least if they're going for damage, and this is on the tank that's currently in 3rd place for damage.

[CKNovel]

Why not? Otherwise they all end up becoming the exact same.
Basically, if they buffed Drk's healing a shitload it would be fair, but it would also make all the tanks identical.
I think utility should 100% be weighed into a job's balance. And this is true for other jobs as well. Red mage notoriously being behind BLM because BLM has no utility.
Or Sam arbitrarily being at the top because it has no utility beyond Feint.
Why is it easy for people to understand the logic there, but not when it comes to tanks?

Their gameplay would be different, their tools would be different. Only week 1 and ultimate actually cares about their DPS, outside it becomes less and less relevant.

Because Reaper has Arcane Crest doesn't mean it should be at the bottom of the DPS chart, Arcane crest would become less and less valuable with good healer while its DPS is taxed for a tool they can't take advantage of.
The same way, Viper would be at the top because they don't even have self utility but this would require higher attention from tanks and healer to keep their Viper alive, not from the Viper itself.
Or SMN and RDM get shafted because of they have ressurection but is useless if no one dies, yet the tax remains. And even if someone dies, that's most likely their own fault or healers. Yet they're taxed for it.

I think it's bad, their res should be a strength, not a tradeoff.

[Kalaam]

The raises should honestly apply a form of damage penalty only when used (which the loss of a GCD or quick cast, and the hefty MP cost if using too much very must is. You can end up not casting anything for a solid 10 seconds if you raise too many people)

[Ryaduera]

War has absolutely no business outdpssing any tank.
It has the best invuln, the best party mit, the best sustain, and additional minor advantages such as an extra knockback resist and mobility. Hell, why does it still have guaranteed direct crits? So that it will consistently outperform objectively worse tanks? I'm sorry, but Dark knight sucks. There is a direct upgrade waiting to be played, and the pickrates reflect this. With Warrior rocking the pickrate of Drk and Pld combined.
If you're going to judge how good a job is, you have to meassure it against the alternative options that are available. To which Drk just falls completely flat because it got powercrept by streamer endorsed favouritism.
It's genuinely hillarious that they decided to just give War a 40 potency buff on a 1 minute cooldown, that now nearly matches Dark knight's big 2 minute cooldown gcd in potency.

This post was poetry

I don't think people have realized it yet because we don't have Savages, and in the Extremes you can skirt by on Shadowed Vigil/Oblation/Rampart alone.
But yes I do truly think unless SE does something (they wont) people are going to feel like DRK doesn't have a short mit anymore, at least if they're going for damage, and this is on the tank that's currently in 3rd place for damage.

How would you feel about a removed MP cost on TBN, merge it with Oblation, put it on a 30s cooldown with 2 charges, and made it so Dark Arts instead empowered other mitigations or even gave availability to a small self heal? A little oGCD usable only while DA is available. It removes the job fantasy of using DA for damage, but it adds a layer of engagement to the defensive kit that other tanks lack right now.

[Oizen]

How would you feel about a removed MP cost on TBN, merge it with Oblation, put it on a 30s cooldown with 2 charges, and made it so Dark Arts instead empowered other mitigations or even gave availability to a small self heal? A little oGCD usable only while DA is available. It removes the job fantasy of using DA for damage, but it adds a layer of engagement to the defensive kit that other tanks lack right now.

Mixed. It would be more powerful than it is now, but you're also basically removing the last job-specific mechanic Dark Knight even has.
I think DRK would need more to its MP side if TBN wasn't a factor anymore.

[Ryaduera]

Mixed. It would be more powerful than it is now, but you're also basically removing the last job-specific mechanic Dark Knight even has.
I think DRK would need more to its MP side if TBN wasn't a factor anymore.

True. How's about using TBN consumes Darkside time (like 10s? 5s?) but grants MP when you consume a Dark Arts? This would force an edge/flood sooner and thus likely outside the burst window, but it would have an interaction with your MP bar and your DPS mechanics. Probably not great, though. This is just me reaching for DRK to have some sort of actual interaction with Darkside.

[Kazimere]

They aren't going to make dark good. It was good in HW. It's been downhill since then

[Ryaduera]

They aren't going to make dark good. It was good in HW. It's been downhill since then

I'm pretty convinced the DRK we have is the DRK we keep. Forever. Hoping for 7.0 improvements is still hopium.

Yeah... been saying it for years, just this time around the devs say they want to focus on job identity for 8.0 so maybe we can wait 2 more years to see a change? Not sure.