You pull you tank question.

[Celine_Aurora]

If you are doing PUG content, the polite thing is to let the tank lead. If you're doing content with players you know the play style of then go ahead and do what they're going to be okay with.

The problem always comes back to the entire "Tank presses the gas, Healer presses the brakes" way the dungeons work. A tank can attempt to pull everything, but if the healer isn't literately right behind them, them they are going to die if they miss one of their mitigations. Meanwhile, the Healer sets the pull size, which is typically "1 or 2" depending on the healer. It's usually easier to pull more with a WHM, because they can fire off Benediction, and Holy, which buys enough time to let the DPS drop their own nukes on it. The other healers can not do this.

The only player that should be pulling the boss is the main tank.

This post is a relic from an age where mmorpg had actual mechanics related to trash and aggro - a dps pulling could make it difficult for the tank to estabilish aggro, or difficult for the tank to survive if the impatient dps pulled more than the tank's gear could chew, or pulled a mob with an unique mech that required more attention, or difficult for the group to dps down if the composition was heavily single-target focused.

In XIV mobs only autoattack, they don't crit and they hit like a wet noodle with the only danger being there's a lot of them, "mechs" are small orange puddles you can dodge 3 seconds in advance, every job gets the same aoE capabilities and tanks can estabilish aggro with a single AoE GCD. Nobody takes damage but the tank (ideally) so no reason to why about healer stress either.

This goes for bosses too. If a dps pulls the boss ahead, the first auto will do some mid damage, then the tank can voke it immediately. Typically the boss will do 2 auto then fire off a mech for which aggro doesn't even matter.

The reasons people have a YPYT mentality in XIV: they carried it over from a different game, or they heard it talked about on the internet and thought the concept of griefing their party was cool.

[Malthir]

Ultimately this whole conversation is just about how poor job engagement and dungeon encounters are in the game. The reason DPS pull ahead to pull is cause they are bored AF because their jobs require -1braincell to play. Tanks are functionally the same as are healers, so instead of feeling engaged with the content with the game, people are speed running in the attempt to get something better, sadly there is nothing better at the moment. If DPS classes had actual playstyles and mechanics as opposed to just the slimmed down mech they currently had they would be less bored. If combat encounters required everyone to deal with the enemy instead of just spam your 2 aoe moves when we pull a pack people would be less frustrated. It's a tanks job to pull and a dps to damage the enemy. If they brought back CC made packs tougher to fight, brought in some decent mechanics, brought back different play styles. Then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

[EusisLandale]

If they brought back CC made packs tougher to fight

Funny you should mention that. There are a decent number of enemies in the new dungeons with big deadly aoes that can be put to sleep. I have confused more than a few players that go running for their lives when, for example, the big turtle stomp winds up and then just stops. Usually also stunnable, but apparently nobody knows how to weave in a Low Blow or Leg Sweep anymore.

[Rikka_Chu]

Its nothing against TOS. If you got this kind of tank. Just vote dismiss before last boss. Same goes for DPS who are pulling extra pack when Tank is doing single pulls. Just vote kick and get a refill.

[Vahlnir]

Its nothing against TOS. If you got this kind of tank. Just vote dismiss before last boss. Same goes for DPS who are pulling extra pack when Tank is doing single pulls. Just vote kick and get a refill.

It is against the ToS since they are purposely impeding the progress of their party (which is a ToS violation) just to feed their own ego, usually stopping the party from doing anything while they rage. It can also be considered an MPK, which is a form of griefing. That said, yeah, it's faster and easier to just remove them. Maybe eventually, after enough removals, they will understand that they might actually be the problem.

[Malthir]

It is against the ToS since they are purposely impeding the progress of their party (which is a ToS violation) just to feed their own ego, usually stopping the party from doing anything while they rage. It can also be considered an MPK, which is a form of griefing. That said, yeah, it's faster and easier to just remove them. Maybe eventually, after enough removals, they will understand that they might actually be the problem.

The ToS argument is completely flawed as is could be used against a tank letting DPS die who pulls but could also be used against a DPS that wipes the party by pulling. It's a dumb argument, ultimately don't be an ass, it's the tanks job to pull as established by the devs themselves. That being said, speak to people say hey can we take a w2w please, and listen to others, if the healer and tank say they aren't comfy with that, then take your Adderall and chill for a lil bit. Or leave and wait out the timer. No one is the centre of a group, but seeing as as a DPS you cannot do a dungeon without the tank and healer but they can do it without you, I'd check yourself.

[koko-on-da-forumz]

Literally who cares? You don't need a tank to complete a dungeon.

If they get fussy, just keep moving. If the entire party gets fussy, don't worry, you'll be vote kicked.

It is what it is.

[Celine_Aurora]

The ToS argument is completely flawed as is could be used against a tank letting DPS die who pulls but could also be used against a DPS that wipes the party by pulling. It's a dumb argument, ultimately don't be an ass, it's the tanks job to pull as established by the devs themselves. That being said, speak to people say hey can we take a w2w please, and listen to others, if the healer and tank say they aren't comfy with that, then take your Adderall and chill for a lil bit. Or leave and wait out the timer. No one is the centre of a group, but seeing as as a DPS you cannot do a dungeon without the tank and healer but they can do it without you, I'd check yourself.

It could not.
If the tanik is hitting buttons and the party wipes: maybe.
If a dps pulls and the tank just refuses to hit the pulled mobs with AoE and refuses to estabilish aggro: it's lethargic play.
Also the devs said in the role description thata tank's job is to get hit and keep enmity, not to let people die for displeasing them.
Although your last comment reeks of main character syndrome so I already know i'm wasting my time replying.

[Merrigan]

It is against the ToS since they are purposely impeding the progress of their party (which is a ToS violation) just to feed their own ego, usually stopping the party from doing anything while they rage. It can also be considered an MPK, which is a form of griefing. That said, yeah, it's faster and easier to just remove them. Maybe eventually, after enough removals, they will understand that they might actually be the problem.

But isn't the dps who forces the group to have their own rhythm, without even asking in the chat beforehand, a problem for the group? I find this whole discussion extremely curious - and before anyone gets on me, yes, I do take aggro back when I tank. You seem to think that tanking is exclusively about going at the pace that suits YOU, without ever thinking for two seconds about :

- Asking in chat (the vast majority of people who pull do so manu militari)
- Thinking that perhaps not everyone in this group wants to go super fast.
- The person who gets in the way of the group's smooth running is the dps who pulls. Not the tank. If there's one implicit rule in all moorpg's that obey the usual trinity, it's that it's up to the tank to pull. That's where the violation lies, nowhere else.

If they get fussy, just keep moving. If the entire party gets fussy, don't worry, you'll be vote kicked.

And the same goes for this message. It's pretty crazy to behave as if the three people who are with you are bots, just good enough to get you into a dungeon before being asked to make the run as you wish. If the whole group is unhappy with your pace, then you're told to stick to it because the majority has spoken. A player who forces his pace under these conditions is just a pain in the arse.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to stop referring to the TOS and adopt a minimum of good manners.

[koko-on-da-forumz]

It's pretty crazy to behave as if the three people who are with you are bots, just good enough to get you into a dungeon before being asked to make the run as you wish. If the whole group is unhappy with your pace, then you're told to stick to it because the majority has spoken. A player who forces his pace under these conditions is just a pain in the arse.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to stop referring to the TOS and adopt a minimum of good manners.

Don't get too hung up on your idea of politeness.

What's polite in your circles is impolite in others. That's the difference here. There's no 'middle' to meet in, each position is mutually exclusive.

Again, who cares? One of you gets kicked, requeue, that's the end of the story. Have a laugh about some ego-tripping warrior you found.