Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[Reimmi]

I guess we should just keep throwing our money at SE and eat the crap they serve us. I'm all for constructive criticism and giving devs the benefit of the doubt, they're not superhumans after all, but story, the one thing that is universally praised about the game, taking a massive dive into the dumpster should be alarming to anyone who cares about the game.

personally playing for the gameplay alone, the content seems to be a setp up from endwalker.
Story is hot ass tho so hopefully they improve

[Topaz2510]

I love her, shes fun

[Turtledeluxe]

You mentioned 'Wuk Lamat isn't real" several times now, I recall just shaking my head as I have no idea what kind of point you think you are making with this, and commented as I saw you write this yet again. It's a pointless argument about semantics. People discuss characters, and don't need to preface every comment about a character with "the writers of the character". It's not how people discuss fiction - like I said, it's a given that a fictional character has a writer/designer behind the scenes.

Hatred of a character comes from the character's writing, design, and acting. All three are an unfortunate hurricane of terrible when it comes to Wuk Lamat - again in case it's not obvious - in my opinion. An improvement on any of the three would have helped. Here, for me, it's terrible from all directions. I mentioned the actors because FFXIV primary characters have actors, and how they perform also influences how much we like a character. I can find Graha annoying, but like how Jonathan Bailey sounds in the role, so his acting improved how much I liked the character even if the writing for him sometimes irks me. These characters in this medium don't exist in a vacuum, so "of course" I'd also mention the poor performance.

Since you aren't seeing that people's distaste of Wuk Lamat is layered and multifaceted, I'd also like to point out that people can:
1. Not want any ONE character taking over an entire expansion, whether they like the character or not,
2. Dislike everything about Wuk Lamat like I do, and
3. Find that the writers failed both in character writing and character allotment simultaneously, but due to how terrible Wuk us, the issue that she is omnipresent creates a far bigger issue in that she is so irritating, that she makes the overall experience worse than if someone liked the star of the story.

My posts aren't really about people giving multifaceted feedback, it's moreso a reaction to this idea that one singular character ruins the story and that writing will automatically be good if she isn't around. Imo, this feedback is not only less effective but pretty harmful, because it gives the impression that if Wuk Lamat disappeared from DT, or disappears in the future, everything will automatically be ok. I've already seen people doing this with respect to the Arcadion or even within the MSQ itself when she's not around. People are welcome to submit that feedback and feel that way, but I how I feel is that there's a lot more work to be done beyond that. The writing problems with Wuk Lamat are pervasive and extend to characters we know already and love already. I don't think it has to do with any characters, including Wuk Lamat, I think it has to do with how they are used and how they are written.

Hating a character is any given person's personal agenda. There can be reasons to hate them-- they can be engineered as such. It can also be unintended, which is where I would say Wuk Lamat falls. I just don't think, as I said, she's the main problem with DT, she's just the most present character so it makes it easy to make her this symbol of hate for the expansion. I think that's a mistake, but everyone can make their own choices.

[ZephyrMenodora]

My posts aren't really about people giving multifaceted feedback, it's moreso a reaction to this idea that one singular character ruins the story and that writing will automatically be good if she isn't around. Imo, this feedback is not only less effective but pretty harmful, because it gives the impression that if Wuk Lamat disappeared from DT, or disappears in the future, everything will automatically be ok. I've already seen people doing this with respect to the Arcadion or even within the MSQ itself when she's not around. People are welcome to submit that feedback and feel that way, but I how I feel is that there's a lot more work to be done beyond that. The writing problems with Wuk Lamat are pervasive and extend to characters we know already and love already. I don't think it has to do with any characters, including Wuk Lamat, I think it has to do with how they are used and how they are written.

No, it wouldn't fix everything. Someone wrote this character. Someone approved of her design and extensive use in the story. Someone approved Sena's hire and ear-plug inspiring performance reaching our ears.

But the disappearance of Wuk Lamat would be a good start.

[TaleraRistain]

Absolutely.

The best save SE can do now, is to do a Haurchefant on Poochie. Write in a way to kill the character off. Of course, she doesn't deserve sympathy, so I am thinking more like that M-Tribe neko with the bombs? Something comical to explode her?

I think we would cheer on that event, especially if we got a "Windup Poochie Rug" minion as a quest reward after she bit the big one.

I think they can just keep her in Tuliyollal doing Vow things with Koana. She's Busy.

The more I think of it too, they really did try for a Zidane and Kuja idea with Wuk Lamat and Zoraal Ja, which excites the hell out of me as a IX fan. But unfortunately without the nuance that makes those two characters so popular and memorable so the comparison ended up too heavy handed and flat.

[chizLemons]

My posts aren't really about people giving multifaceted feedback, it's moreso a reaction to this idea that one singular character ruins the story and that writing will automatically be good if she isn't around. Imo, this feedback is not only less effective but pretty harmful, because it gives the impression that if Wuk Lamat disappeared from DT, or disappears in the future, everything will automatically be ok. I've already seen people doing this with respect to the Arcadion or even within the MSQ itself when she's not around. People are welcome to submit that feedback and feel that way, but I how I feel is that there's a lot more work to be done beyond that. The writing problems with Wuk Lamat are pervasive and extend to characters we know already and love already. I don't think it has to do with any characters, including Wuk Lamat, I think it has to do with how they are used and how they are written.

There's a few wonderful threads out there that go into the other issues, about character writing and other problems on the story. Instead of coming to complain about people complaining about a character, in a thread for complaining about the character, maybe post and give more attention to those threads instead? I agree, the problem goes much beyond Wuk Lamat. BUT Wuk Lamat IS one of the problems - not only the way she is written as a character, but how much she is there, her purpose, the consequences of her actions and what happens around her during the story. Maybe not the only problem, as the title of the post implies, but there's better ways for you to get your point across.

Saying "Wuk Lamat isn't real" isn't helping your point and also has nothing to do with what you just said.

[TaleraRistain]

The critique of her smothering everything even comes from the side of those who liked the story and the content creators are also pretty loud about that and the Japanese even louder because being so personal so fast with the nickname is not liked there if a few comments are any indication.

That bugged me even as a Westerner. I still call the person who I fled from Ul'Dah with after being accused of regicide and who joined me fighting at the end of the universe by his full name. Even after everything we've been through together. I am NOT going to just start using someone's nickname I just met.

[Turtledeluxe]

You also seem to be hung up on semantics, when people just want to share their viewpoints and thoughts. Right or wrong, it doesn't actually matter. Remember, these are just words on a screen to you so it's not like you should worry that much.

Regardless, I hope you have a great day!~

Patronizing aside, statements come from conscious human beings and they're subject to analysis. If what I am saying doesn't apply to your personal criticism, I'm not sure why it would bother you for me to point out that Wuk Lamat is not real. I've seen posts giving me the impression that people are getting caught up in the hype of hating the character, and that is why I am saying that. I do not literally think people believe she is real, but rather that they talk about her like she is. Part of it is what you are saying-- just semantics and just phrasing. I'm only hoping to elaborate on what I perceive to be, just hating.

We are just customers and fans. We don't need to write an essay for criticism.
The devs know that people hate a character. How they answer that is their problem. There is normaly an entire department for stuff like that.
Saying "hey Square, this character sucks and ruins the story" shouldn't be answered with "understood, here have another character that's even worse then before".
They get payed to think themself.

Also there have been entire threads about what the problems are even in this thread here itself.
If the devs don't see the reasons then they don't want to see them.

All I know is that given the feedback over the years, we still got DT. So, obviously there's more nuanced discussion to be had. And that is what I am pushing for. The problems here extend well beyond Wuk Lamat. Wuk Lamat is just the most obvious one because she's so persistent in the story.

I wonder how many more times I am going to have to explain, that when I say she is not real, it is more of a commentary on how comments come across vs what their intention is. Regarding Wuk Lamat being removed as being some kind of "good start"-- that personally doesn't interest me and I don't find it very useful. I can imagine DT without any one character and I still think it would be average at best, so to me it comes across as wishful thinking/futile. That's just my opinion.

[BigBoom550]

Yeah it was too much, too fast. If it was a title thing, with 'Wuk Lamat' being the local equivalent of 'Miss Doe' and Lamat'yi being informal/first name, that'd be fine.

But it's a family nickname. We don't refer to anyone that intimately. Raha's the closest, but the man at least narratively tried to earn that intimacy, what with working over a century solo to try and help us.

They saw the Yda-shaped hole in the party and tried to fill it with Wuk Lamat. It might have worked if she gave nicknames to everyone, if she was pulled out of the spotlight for other characters to properly interact with her.

Instead Naruto learned that apparently Hypnotoad is one of his Summons.

[Voidmage]

All I know is that given the feedback over the years, we still got DT. So, obviously there's more nuanced discussion to be had. And that is what I am pushing for. The problems here extend well beyond Wuk Lamat. Wuk Lamat is just the most obvious one because she's so persistent in the story.

We didn‘t get DT because of feedback or despite it.
We got it because they wanted to try something new. I linked an article to that interview somewhere in one of those threads.

Wuk Lamat was the result of that.

If you want the other thing.
We did get a very spiced up fight design with DT.
That was not because people went full in detail what they wanted but because they said „the dungeons suck so much we fall asleep“.

I know where you are coming from. These more nuanced discussions are in another thread though.
This one here is on Wuk Lamat and for me she had the biggest impact on the story in a negative sense.