FFXIV: Do Better

[Khutulun]

They said they were changing the encounter designs with DT, and I think a lot of people have said they've delivered on that front so far. Legitimate question, but what kind of content are you expecting? If you could provide some examples, that would be great.

Circling back to OP, I get your frustration. However, my experience in dealing with major changes is that you don't tackle everything at once. I've said it before, but from what I've seen, it seems like the first thing they wanted to do was change the encounter space. So far, they've done that. Once you have that piece done, now you can focus on individualizing the jobs. Does that mean it will probably be until 8.0? I'm going to say yes based on previous experience. If you can't find a single job you want to play, that seems to me there is something deeper here then just the jobs that is causing you to step away and is a culmination of things, not just one.

I get the impression that DT job changes to Black Mage and Astro, combined with the threat of changes to Viper and the unneeded healing/mit buffs for tanks that worsen the Healer role situation, have exacerbated the issue of job design- hence this thread and the lack of patience for 8.0. Waiting till 8.0 is one thing, but DT might've made the problem worse?

It's always hard to wait for something when the situation is getting worse before getting better- and then throw in the years of wait going from expansion to expansion requires.

[Revash]

Hello, all.



I'll get to the point. I love FFXIV, but I hate Endwalker PVE job design. I would play through the story as PVP Sage if I could, but I can't, and there's not a single PVE job that I want to touch with a 10 foot pole. Yoshi P, if you truly want FFXIV to be a game for everyone, do better.

This is usually the biggest Achilles heel for any video game design. Try creating a game for everybody and you will create it for nobody.

[ThaCa]

I think OP is being overly dramatic, since this issue is so very specific

I dont believe its possible to make FFXIV a game for everyone, but you can please most and I think that's what YoshiP is trying to do.

Would designs like Viper or Picto be better for the OP since they like PVP? Ive never played Sage PVP so i have no idea how different it is

Sage is really fun in PvP, the only real issue it has is that Phlegma has shorter range than any melee Jobs' hits for some reason.

[Mr_Gyactus]

Nono, you ARE burnt out.

Take care, have fun and so on.

If you want return back, if you won't don't return.

[Doomfist]

btw OP I hope you don't care about the badass oppressor mount from the pvp battlepass, cuz if you're coming back at 8.0 then you'll be missing out on it if you don't grind for it before the series changes.

I'm doing this currently. I just hope they give us something big to grind for.

The augmented Hellhound weapons were step in right direction. Having full armor set that can be upgraded would be amazing.

There's so many options they could do to encourage playing PvP more, but currently it's pre-season in Ranked and the rewards have been really lackluster for a long time.
You get the Series completed in no time with semi-active playing and then just float Trophy Crystals like mad.

Most of the players got their Ranked plates and titles during the first 2 seasons and just left since we are getting just repeats with different numbers.

Yeah when I read the 7.0 patch notes and saw there would be new trophy crystal and wolf mark items, I was super hyped to see what they were, then when Dawntrail dropped I checked the wolves den only to see that the new items were just viper/picto frames and new materia. BOOOOOOOOOO

But yeah pvp is so much more dynamic than the pve, with all the job identity that was stripped away for balance, crystalline conflict was one of the biggest reasons for me to stay subbed during endwalker (until I finished the battlepass). I also wish that there's more rewards for pvp, though I was able to trade my excess crystals for wolf collars -> wolf marks to buy the new materia and make gil.

[Aravell]

I keep seeing people say that Yoshi P is trying to create "a game for everyone", but that couldn't be further from the truth.

A game for everyone implies that everyone would have something to enjoy, but with the dev team's motto of 'accessibility above all', they're only catering to one very specific type of player.

With every job following this design choice, there is not a single job for the people who want more engaging kits with a higher achievable skill ceiling. And no, harder content does not equal the engagement of more complex jobs, so the "go play ultimate" comment is inherently flawed.

[ty_taurus]

I keep seeing people say that Yoshi P is trying to create "a game for everyone", but that couldn't be further from the truth.

A game for everyone implies that everyone would have something to enjoy, but with the dev team's motto of 'accessibility above all', they're only catering to one very specific type of player.

With every job following this design choice, there is not a single job for the people who want more engaging kits with a higher achievable skill ceiling. And no, harder content does not equal the engagement of more complex jobs, so the "go play ultimate" comment is inherently flawed.

My point exactly.

This is not a game for everyone, because its job design is so divisive that it is literally driving people out of FFXIV. If you like job design, great. But that doesn’t invalidate people who have enjoyed FFXIV for many expansions prior who are driven out by modern job design. If this were a game for everyone, we would have a healthier balance in job design where maybe there are things I would still think could be better, but I’d find it enjoyable enough to not be complaining about healer design for what will eventually be nearly 8 years.

[Daralii]

Because while encounters were pretty stale in EW the jobs have been stale since ShB

It’s hard to find a job to be engaged with the better content when they are 21 versions of food colour dyed oatmeal

Some of the bowls of oatmeal also contain flashbangs.

[LianaThorne]

Just gonna drop this study here again as a potential explanation for why the game is becoming "dumbed down" or "less involved mentally".

https://quanticfoundry.com/2024/05/21/strategy-decline/

This is a study on gamer motivations that has been conducted over the last 9 years (published May 2024) with a pool of around 1.7m people. It outlines the 12 motivations of gaming and how, compared to the other 11, strategy in particular has taken a much larger decline in priority to gamers.

A quote:
"Even if the underlying cause(s) cannot be identified, it’s clear that gamers have become less interested in strategic thinking over the past 9 years. It implies that gamers are now more easily cognitively overloaded when they play games and are more likely to avoid strategic complexity. This has implications for game design and marketing. Overall, gamers now prefer shorter time horizons to plan for (i.e., the number of steps and branching outcomes they have to think through) and less complex decisions that rely on fewer parameters to consider."

[Menriq]

Because while encounters were pretty stale in EW the jobs have been stale since ShB

It’s hard to find a job to be engaged with the better content when they are 21 versions of food colour dyed oatmeal

I'm not disagreeing with the premise. In fact, people have argued the encounters were stale long before EW. As far as the jobs, it's been stated this problem might have been community driven to get us to the "2 minute meta". To many, they might have swung too far in that at the expense of job diversity. The impression that I've gotten is they are aware of this, and are trying to figure out the best way forward. I didn't read all of the healer thread, but I got the feeling the JP players felt differently about how healers are compared to other regions, which only adds to the complexity of how to address a problem that has different views.

I get the impression that DT job changes to Black Mage and Astro, combined with the threat of changes to Viper and the unneeded healing/mit buffs for tanks that worsen the Healer role situation, have exacerbated the issue of job design- hence this thread and the lack of patience for 8.0. Waiting till 8.0 is one thing, but DT might've made the problem worse?

It's always hard to wait for something when the situation is getting worse before getting better- and then throw in the years of wait going from expansion to expansion requires.

This is where I have no answer. They've made fundamental changes to jobs, and they've gotten mixed reviews (which is to be expected). Many people hated the changes to HW Bard, and those were changed back. MNK and SMN changes also come to mind. I feel like it's going to be something that even if they make changes, there are going to be unhappy parties. That doesn't mean changes shouldn't be made, but I honestly don't know how to address the issues. To me, it seems like there are many issues to the problem, and they are trying to untangle the knot from different angles. DT is addressing the content staleness, 8.0 will be job individualization, and then go from there.