FFXIV: Do Better

[ty_taurus]

Hello, all.

My sub ends tomorrow, so I believe this will be my last message for a while--maybe until 8.0. I have not touched a single minute of Dawntrail's story, its dungeons, or its content. Yet it's not because I'm burnt out of FFXIV. On the contrary, I have a very strong urge to play through Dawntrail's content, but what I have absolutely no drive to do whatsoever is put up with Endwalker job design any longer. It's a weird feeling, having both a constant urge to want to play the game and yet dreading the idea of actually playing the game. I want to explore the Story. I refuse to put up with Dosis spam. I want to try Arcadion. I am burnt out of DPS jobs. I want to see the upcoming field operations. I have no interest in trying tank jobs. I feel torn to say the least.

I'll get to the point. I love FFXIV, but I hate Endwalker PVE job design. I would play through the story as PVP Sage if I could, but I can't, and there's not a single PVE job that I want to touch with a 10 foot pole. Yoshi P, if you truly want FFXIV to be a game for everyone, do better.

Because this ongoing hyper simplified job design has alienated not just me, but many others who have also resigned and left the game. There has to be a better middle ground that's still approachable but doesn't exclude the players who want to engage with job design. Don't wait for 8.0 to make changes. Just waiting for 8.0 to address these issues is cutting corners when there are things you could do now to make job design more enjoyable without sweeping reworks.

Make healers more enjoyable now. Leave Viper alone for the players who enjoy its complexity. Restore nonstandard gameplay aspects to Black Mage and other jobs as well. There is a healthy middle ground you can achieve with job design, and this is clearly not it. Goodbye for now everyone, I hope all of you are able to find enjoyment in the jobs even if I cannot and enjoy what Dawntrail has in store. I sincerely hope I can return sooner rather than later.

[ThaCa]

I usually spend early expansion just leveling up jobs and whatnot, but this time I kinda feel same. Going to wait for 8.0 to hopefully see major revisions that make them more fun to play instead of pushing on.

If only they could take the flavor they have in PvP and build upon that, but it will probably require some big decisions.

I'd imagine if they had the balls to make all the DPS greedy it would allow for vast more variety as they'd no longer have to rely on stacking buffs for windows and could have vastly different playstyles and internal timers, sure it would probably mean some perform better or worse based on fight timelines but having actual options to pick from would be great.

Like having real option between spell/skill speed builds to mitigate the timelines.

[ForteNightshade]

I keep seeing people say that Yoshi P is trying to create "a game for everyone", but that couldn't be further from the truth.

A game for everyone implies that everyone would have something to enjoy, but with the dev team's motto of 'accessibility above all', they're only catering to one very specific type of player.

With every job following this design choice, there is not a single job for the people who want more engaging kits with a higher achievable skill ceiling. And no, harder content does not equal the engagement of more complex jobs, so the "go play ultimate" comment is inherently flawed.

People are forgetting that what Yoshida says is often PR. I don't doubt for a second he means "everyone" when he says that, except you need to read between the lines. His version of "everyone" is a game accessible for anyone. It's no different than the rating system: E for Everyone. He's technically not lying but specifically wording it in such a way to have plausible deniability. Yoshida does this quite often and he's usually fantastic at it, his Ultimate comment notwithstanding.

Everything the OP said, for example, about making things "better" omits the phrase "for the OP." Interestingly, said OP also seems to get a free pass for referencing a claimed "invisible many other people."

It should go without saying people are going to speak to their own personal gripes with the game. The difference, something you continuously ignore in all threads discussing job design, is your side of the equation has been and remains repeatedly catered to at all avenues. Neither, Taurus, myself or any other who has voiced criticism towards the simplification of jobs is asking for every job to suddenly be made into a complex mess. What many of us would settle for it options. We have four healers, for example. Why do they all have to play similarly to one another? Why does Astro have to be smashed down into budget White Mage? Because some people complained they like the pretty card aesthetic but Astro was too complex! Instead of being told to play White Mage, a job tailored for their preferred playerstyle, the dev team capitulated into making Astro easier--robbing those who enjoyed its original complexity.

The same thing happened to Dark Knight all the way back in Heavensward. They wanted to play the cool, edgy tank (or pretend it was a DPS) not the "lame, holy knight". So Dark Knight needed to be grinded down in the name of accessibility. Bard lost every ounce of nuance it had in Stormblood despite the fact they were releasing a new Prange that could fill the less complex void for players. Nope! They needed Bard to be simple so everyone can play it.

Thus far, the dev team has gone out of its way to break any form of optimization players do that isn't in line with their one rotation fits all. Nonstandard Black Mage? Dead. Warriors delaying Primal Ruination to double up under buffs? Immediately killed off. Viper? Remains to be seen.

[Palladiamors]

Yea I usually immediately level up a couple more characters to level cap but I just have no drive to this time. Then again I wasn't going to even come back for Dawntrail but the fear of missing out got me two days before release.

After my months up I'm out until Beast master drops. After that...I dunno. Might just wait to see what 8.0 has in store before grinding through 7.x.

[Doomfist]

You could always just stick to PVP, try out new jobs there as well. I know when I got into crystal conflict, I finally unlocked every job to try them out and learn them for CC.

[ThaCa]

You could always just stick to PVP, try out new jobs there as well. I know when I got into crystal conflict, I finally unlocked every job to try them out and learn them for CC.

I'm doing this currently. I just hope they give us something big to grind for.

The augmented Hellhound weapons were step in right direction. Having full armor set that can be upgraded would be amazing.

There's so many options they could do to encourage playing PvP more, but currently it's pre-season in Ranked and the rewards have been really lackluster for a long time.
You get the Series completed in no time with semi-active playing and then just float Trophy Crystals like mad.

Most of the players got their Ranked plates and titles during the first 2 seasons and just left since we are getting just repeats with different numbers.

[AvoSturmfaust]

Game has still enough Players who why would they care about a few people? Its like the Healerstrikes its a MINORITY nobody cares about it, only a handful people.

[cutestfox]

Game has still enough Players who why would they care about a few people? Its like the Healerstrikes its a MINORITY nobody cares about it, only a handful people.

It's this kind of attitude that causes nothing but rot
There is no reason to not strive for better and ask for better

[DaveFishnomer]

It's this kind of attitude that causes nothing but rot
There is no reason to not strive for better and ask for better

They are right tho, people who want to see this game gets better are the minority, most people are either content with the current state or their personality is so embedded with the game that they see any criticism of the game as a criticism of them.

The game is most likely (Hope to be proven wrong here) doomed to getting worse with time.

[Striker44]

It's this kind of attitude that causes nothing but rot
There is no reason to not strive for better and ask for better

The issue is that "better" is entirely subjective, and what is "better" for one person could just as easily be "worse" for others. Refusing to make adjustments can result in stagnation, but changing too much can just as easily make something fall apart.

And when you have a concern about the game I hope people are there to call you a minority until the invisible majority has eaten itself alive

I think it would be wise to differentiate between "concerns" that can be addressed without potentially impacting other players negatively vs. those that can't. For example, people asking for additional graphics options, more ways to complete relics, etc....providing those extra options doesn't take away from anyone else. However, addressing other concerns can require significantly and fundamentally changing the game, and that is a risky endeavour.

Everything the OP said, for example, about making things "better" omits the phrase "for the OP." Interestingly, said OP also seems to get a free pass for referencing a claimed "invisible many other people."

Congratulations, you are the target audience. Off to another 10 years of homogenization and designing for the bottom of the barrel.

And yet another example of how the echo chamber treats people who dare to say anything positive. Saved for posterity.

Instead of dumbing down and making simple games to attract people with 7-year old under-developed brains the better game developers design easy to learn but hard to master games like Elden Ring/Souls games and Baldur's gate.

Not a direct response to anyone, but just more of the condescending and belittling attitude on display.