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  1. #1
    Player
    Ramiee's Avatar
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    Dec 2022
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    Uldah
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    1,096
    Character
    Grainne Gothram
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 50
    I'm on team give people options. Make a certain job(s) all about positionals and another one doesn't have positionals.
    Locking everyone into the same thing never works, if cleric stance wasn't standard healers wouldn't of been lobotomised. Same with stance dancing and tanks.
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player
    Aco505's Avatar
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    Dec 2021
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    859
    Character
    Aco Nale
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramiee View Post
    Make a certain job(s) all about positionals and another one doesn't have positionals.
    There are jobs without positionals: tanks, ranged and healers. Tanks are basically positional-less melees.

    There's also RPR, which is laxer on them.
    (5)

  3. #3
    Player
    Ramiee's Avatar
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    Dec 2022
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    Uldah
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    1,096
    Character
    Grainne Gothram
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Aco505 View Post
    There are jobs without positionals: tanks, ranged and healers. Tanks are basically positional-less melees.

    There's also RPR, which is laxer on them.
    I meant there being a melee dps job. Honestly for reaper just remove all positionals and make it the basic melee job for people who just want to press buttons.
    If I had my way we would have that and current monk would have like 5 positionals.
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    Valence's Avatar
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    Oct 2018
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    4,365
    Character
    Sunie Dakwhil
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramiee View Post
    I'm on team give people options. Make a certain job(s) all about positionals and another one doesn't have positionals.
    Locking everyone into the same thing never works, if cleric stance wasn't standard healers wouldn't of been lobotomised. Same with stance dancing and tanks.
    Last time I suggested the addition of new melee DPS jobs without positionals (emphasis on new, I don't want old ones to alienate their fans by deleting their positionals), I got dogpiled by every melee and their mothers because it was somehow a direct attack onto "the identity of the melee DPS role".

    Quote Originally Posted by Aco505 View Post
    There are jobs without positionals: tanks, ranged and healers. Tanks are basically positional-less melees.

    There's also RPR, which is laxer on them.
    Tanks and healers are not DPS at all. It's a whole different type of role and gameplay.
    (5)

  5. #5
    Player
    Aco505's Avatar
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    Dec 2021
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    859
    Character
    Aco Nale
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Valence View Post
    Tanks and healers are not DPS at all. It's a whole different type of role and gameplay.
    The point here is that positionals are an intrinsic element of melee, just like cast times are for casters. Asking for positionals to be removed is like asking for all cast times to be instant.

    There's a reason why SMN is such a contentious job for caster players.
    (3)

  6. #6
    Player
    Valence's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    4,365
    Character
    Sunie Dakwhil
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Aco505 View Post
    The point here is that positionals are an intrinsic element of melee, just like cast times are for casters. Asking for positionals to be removed is like asking for all cast times to be instant.

    There's a reason why SMN is such a contentious job for caster players.
    The only intrinsic element to melee is being limited by range... Much like casting is to... casters.

    Positionals are not intrinsic to melee whatsoever. They could even be added to other roles technically. Else I could say that procs are intrinsic to ranged physical just because rphys used to only have proc jobs, and yet, they're not.

    There is no irreducible point of correlation between melee and positionals, unlike for melee range for melees and cast times for casters.
    (3)
    Last edited by Valence; 07-15-2024 at 08:39 PM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Eudyptes's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
    Posts
    233
    Character
    Summer Lebeau
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Valence View Post
    Last time I suggested the addition of new melee DPS jobs without positionals (emphasis on new, I don't want old ones to alienate their fans by deleting their positionals), I got dogpiled by every melee and their mothers because it was somehow a direct attack onto "the identity of the melee DPS role".
    Not gonna lie, I think the people who like positionals are just a loud minority. if they got rid of all of them tomorrow you'd see a huge stink about it but the actual amount of melee players would remain largely unchanged. Kinda like how that healer's strike went.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aco505 View Post
    The point here is that positionals are an intrinsic element of melee, just like cast times are for casters. Asking for positionals to be removed is like asking for all cast times to be instant.

    There's a reason why SMN is such a contentious job for caster players.
    No is isn't. Name one other game with melee that has positionals. Cause I can name many with cast times for casters. The identity of melee is being up close and personal. That's it. The built in difficulty is needing to work around enemies moving and AE's around them.

    Also I'm pretty sure the reason smn is such a contentious job is because it effectively is just the same 4 or 5 buttons over and over, not cause cast times are removed.
    (3)

  8. #8
    Player
    Aco505's Avatar
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    Dec 2021
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    859
    Character
    Aco Nale
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    Moogle
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    Dragoon Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Eudyptes View Post
    No is isn't. Name one other game with melee that has positionals.
    In this game it is, because all melee DPS job have them, including the new one released mere days ago.

    But WoW has also had positionals: Backstab, Ambush, Shred, Ravage, Pounce, avoiding the front and sometimes back of bosses to not get parried or tail smashed, etc.
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player
    Eudyptes's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    233
    Character
    Summer Lebeau
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Aco505 View Post
    But WoW has also had positionals: Backstab, Ambush, Shred, Ravage, Pounce, avoiding the front and sometimes back of bosses to not get parried or tail smashed, etc.
    You know what, you're right about that first part of the sentence. But there is also a reason they are all gone now. They are largely a bad idea because mechanics make them inconsistent, just like they do now in this game. And as for the second part...those are literally just enemy mechanics. A tail smash is a boss mechanic that prevents you from getting behind an enemy to do those back positionals. So like, what's the point of having a danger zone AND being punished via doing subpar damage?
    (1)

  10. #10
    Player
    Aco505's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
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    859
    Character
    Aco Nale
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Eudyptes View Post
    A tail smash is a boss mechanic that prevents you from getting behind an enemy to do those back positionals. So like, what's the point of having a danger zone AND being punished via doing subpar damage?
    You can hit a Backstab without getting hit by a tail smash. It requires proper positioning. Also abilities such as Backstab still behave as positionals to this day in WoW.
    (3)

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