Make it so the Current Expac MSQ doesn't level you

[Post]

*the pacing and writing issues wouldn't be sufficiently addressed by the thread idea

Can't edit, mobile mode

[fioravictorine]

If you did MSQ exclusively (including the dungeons), you will have enough XP to 90-100 with a few million exp to spare

If MSQ doesn't give any exp, the pacing would be even worse than it currently is, since you actually have to queue for roulettes/dungeons in order to accept the next MSQ

Please don't make a shitty MSQ even shittier omg....

[Daralii]

If you did MSQ exclusively (including the dungeons), you will have enough XP to 90-100 with a few million exp to spare

If MSQ doesn't give any exp, the pacing would be even worse than it currently is, since you actually have to queue for roulettes/dungeons in order to accept the next MSQ

Please don't make a shitty MSQ even shittier omg....

Early ARR players know what that's like. I don't think roulettes were even a thing at that point, and you ran out of quests at around 47, so you had to just grind FATEs or Aurum Vale until you could do Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium at 50.

[Gortys]

Within the MSQ I was able to get 2 jobs to 100 and likely could have gotten a 3rd there if I put off the MSQ for another day or 2. I actually think this is a good thing for those of us who like to have the option to play more jobs at max level.

I remember having to grind fates and side quests in ARR to level so I could do some MSQ quests. I think that is one time I quit the game since the XP for these was so abysmal I couldn't imagine doing them for 5 levels.

[Kes13a]

why remove the only rewarding thing about bad MSQ's?

not saying they are all bad or anything, but its... a story based game. you know that when you come into it. its a big selling point. so what is the incentive to remove exp from tthat?

it would be like selling a pvp game where you cant level through pvp.

[Malthir]

why remove the only rewarding thing about bad MSQ's?

not saying they are all bad or anything, but its... a story based game. you know that when you come into it. its a big selling point. so what is the incentive to remove exp from tthat?

it would be like selling a pvp game where you cant level through pvp.

Again not saying remove all exp. DT is written poorly which has made alot of player annoyed however if the MSQ was less of a slog of cutscenes and broken down by more player interaction in area's with smaller stories in each zone, even a poorly written story becomes less tedious. It doesn't make it good but less egregious. The problem the game has as a whole and this has been building since Shadowbringer, is a massive reduction in gameplay in favour of static dialogue cutscenes. That is fine as long as the writing is great, but the second the writing is bad it become unbearable. With it also being the main levelling route, it then becomes a massive barrier to entry for new players, which is going to be the issue DT has caused. They will feel a hit in subs from unhappy players now, but they will REALLY REALLY struggle to get new players with DT's MSQ hanging over people. In order to prevent things like this in the future, they need to look to bring gameplay back into the game.

My suggestion of fates and side quest was purely a suggestion I'm open to other ideas. Just then need to stop the MSQ being the only real aspect of the game, or they are going to run into problems.

Before someone says, they just need to write better. DT is an anomaly of poor writing quality in the same regard that shadowbringer was an anomaly in great writing. Most expacs are going to hover in between. It's a poor decision to keep the MSQ this large and heavily focused on cutscenes when you will have massively fluctuating opinions on the story.

[ForteNightshade]

But one of the largest complaints other than poor writing, is the lack of gameplay, the MSQ is ALWAYS going to be alot of cutscenes due to the nature of what it is. The gameplay is the side content/overworld content/dungeons. Although ARR MSQ was meh and the jobs weren't great, it had the best overworld. Dungeons were the best back then with their own self contained story, the world felt like a world. The MSQ having such a forceful emphasis on the game is going to constantly create these hit and miss expacs, if they don't introduce additional content so that players can enjoy gameplay while leveling they will really struggle to keep/gain new players.

Being forced to queue for roulettes or spam FATEs due to level locking wouldn't suddenly make the lack of gameplay in the MSQ any better. It'd feel incredibly arbitrary and lazy because that's exactly what it would be. When people complain about the lack of gameplay, especially in Dawntrail's MSQ, they want the story they're actively participating in to give them gameplay elements not have to abruptly pause and do random trials or dungeons for EXP. Frankly, that would make the 90-91 levels worse because spamming FATEs/dungeons can get boring already. In your hypothetical, I'd have to do it... then return to a very boring story segment. I was already on the verge of skipping cut scenes--something I never do. If they repeatedly level locked me, I'd 100% become a story skipper and NG+ it later when I can go through the whole thing without issue.

[Malthir]

Being forced to queue for roulettes or spam FATEs due to level locking wouldn't suddenly make the lack of gameplay in the MSQ any better. It'd feel incredibly arbitrary and lazy because that's exactly what it would be. When people complain about the lack of gameplay, especially in Dawntrail's MSQ, they want the story they're actively participating in to give them gameplay elements not have to abruptly pause and do random trials or dungeons for EXP. Frankly, that would make the 90-91 levels worse because spamming FATEs/dungeons can get boring already. In your hypothetical, I'd have to do it... then return to a very boring story segment. I was already on the verge of skipping cut scenes--something I never do. If they repeatedly level locked me, I'd 100% become a story skipper and NG+ it later when I can go through the whole thing without issue.

I would argue that people want to be engaged in the world, not necessarily with a single story. Take Tam-Tara Deepcroft Quest chain and subsequent hard mode quest chain, did you not find that engaging when you first did it. I agree being forced to repeat dungeons and grind them is not fun, I remember the Aurem Vale runs back to back to hit 50 back in ARR . Again, that's not what I'm suggesting. Have you everyplayer GW2? Each part of the map has it's own little storyline where you do objectives to fill hearts once filled they are fiinished. ESO does something similar with self contained story lines in points of interest that you go through, this would be a huge boost and a way of breaking up the MSQ which by it's nature is always going to be more cutscenes than it isn't, you can balance the exp so players don't have to grind them, they have the option of what path they want as opposed to being functionally railroaded by the MSQ. So have the MSQ be more to the point, with only the pertinent information dumped on the players for the plot and storyline, and then have the world tell the players the rest of the story of that country region etc etc.

[Kes13a]

I would argue that people want to be engaged in the world, not necessarily with a single story. Take Tam-Tara Deepcroft Quest chain and subsequent hard mode quest chain, did you not find that engaging when you first did it. I agree being forced to repeat dungeons and grind them is not fun, I remember the Aurem Vale runs back to back to hit 50 back in ARR . Again, that's not what I'm suggesting. Have you everyplayer GW2? Each part of the map has it's own little storyline where you do objectives to fill hearts once filled they are filled. ESO does something similar with self contained story lines in points of interest that you go through, this would be a huge boost and a way of breaking up the MSQ which by it's nature is always going to be more cutscenes than it isn't. So have the MSQ be more to the point, with only the pertinent information dumped on the players for the plot and storyline, and then have the world tell the players the rest of the story of that country region etc etc.

unfortunately, I would take boring MSQ over being level locked to get to the next stage/area.

[Malthir]

unfortunately, I would take boring MSQ over being level locked to get to the next stage/area.

Fair enough, I'm glad you enjoy that. I'm just saying it will causing problems for the game longevity though. People are currently lashing out at DT over it's poor writing, but it's a symptom of the issue with the game not the entire problem.

One of the first barriers to entry is ARR MSQ, people say things like don't worry it gets really good after ARR. Now they will say, it gets good after ARR, and then DT is bad but push through that. The only alternative is allow free expac skips, don't give them the levels but allow people to just skip an expac if they want. That however will bring it's own issues. So new people wont get involved. You already love the game so it's not a problem keeping you, the issue is without new players MMO's die. Barriers to entries like this are a disease to the games, if left un treated the game will die.