Make it so the Current Expac MSQ doesn't level you

[Malthir]

I have a feeling that a part of the frustration, other than this MSQ being incredibly cutscene dense, would be resolved if they made it so the MSQ wasn't literally the only viable way to level to 100.

What I mean by this, is that currently there's no point in doing any side content on Expac release. You do the entire MSQ because just the MSQ alone is enough to get you to max level, all major content is gated by the MSQ and the MSQ is very long. Why would you do any other side quests, fates etc?

I think for the game to be more enjoyable and break up the cutscene heavy MSQ, they need to reduce the EXP gained from the current Expacs MSQ. I'm not suggesting make it give you 0 exp just make it so the player needs to find other sources of exp to continue the MSQ. (I also think they need to make the MSQ slightly smaller in scope but that's another issue.) This will then allows the player to do other things in the world to get levels, dungeons runs, fates, side quests. Other content becomes relative and the game isn't relying so heavily on having a brilliant storyline 24/7. You can write a mediocre story and people will care less when it's not constantly in their faces for 30hr straight.

Older Expac MSQ can stay the same to streamline the catching up to the current game.

Updating for clarity: I'm suggesting the MSQ should be smaller, it should still give some xp just not enough to get you to max, less cutscenes, massive lore related info dumbs that aren't pertinent to the plot should be side content that's optional etc, get rid of alot of pointless cutscenes that repeat the same thing said 20m ago almost as if they knew they'd bored the player to sleep and had to remind them. Make the MSQ short sweat drive the plot but have the bulk of playtime be actually gameplay, be that creating a better fate/quest/dungeon/leve system using other games like GW2, ESO as inspiration. That's the way the game needs to move in the future to avoid having this situation again. Dawntrail MSQ being boring for alot of people, is a symptom not the disease.

[Jeeqbit]

While doing MSQ, I did:
-Roulettes and leveled SCH (thus SMN) to 100.
-Sidequests+FATEs+DT hunt bills to unlock rank 6 (leveling WAR to 100).
-Did MSQ with Viper.
-Quickly getting through MCH by roulettes/hunt bills/EW beast tribe/WT.

(For the role quests)

I can also say I see plenty of people doing FATEs and they have gemstone rewards so there is plenty of reason to do them now. You can stop MSQ to do them any time as well.

[GrizzlyTank]

No, just no.

The issue is 100% the writing and pacing. Nothing to do with getting exp

Exp is just a hurdle to keep us subbed for longer.

[Malthir]

No, just no.

The issue is 100% the writing and pacing. Nothing to do with getting exp

Exp is just a hurdle to keep us subbed for longer.

But one of the largest complaints other than poor writing, is the lack of gameplay, the MSQ is ALWAYS going to be alot of cutscenes due to the nature of what it is. The gameplay is the side content/overworld content/dungeons. Although ARR MSQ was meh and the jobs weren't great, it had the best overworld. Dungeons were the best back then with their own self contained story, the world felt like a world. The MSQ having such a forceful emphasis on the game is going to constantly create these hit and miss expacs, if they don't introduce additional content so that players can enjoy gameplay while leveling they will really struggle to keep/gain new players.

While doing MSQ, I did:
-Roulettes and leveled SCH (thus SMN) to 100.
-Sidequests+FATEs+DT hunt bills to unlock rank 6 (leveling WAR to 100).
-Did MSQ with Viper.
-Quickly getting through MCH by roulettes/hunt bills/EW beast tribe/WT.

(For the role quests)

I can also say I see plenty of people doing FATEs and they have gemstone rewards so there is plenty of reason to do them now. You can stop MSQ to do them any time as well.

You're missing my point, all meaningful content is behind the MSQ, which means you have to complete it/progress rather far in it to do any content, The MSQ also give you 1 free level 100 character, that's the mistake I'm talking about. Sure you can stop at anytime and do a fate but the players not rewarded for this meaningfully because at all time it's in your best interest to be doing the MSQ, dungeons also locked behind progressing the MSQ.

My whole point is they need to separate the MSQ from the rest of the gameplay to a degree. Fates and side quest will always been there so players will look at them later, gems are functionally pointless, they are mount and minion grinds that people do once they're max level.

Currently the game is designed to railroad the player through the MSQ, then they can go out and do other things. This creates the problem where if the story doesn't resonate with you the game becomes basically a complete and utter chore for 30hrs. Smaller MSQ with more overworld focus would massively alleviate this.

[ForteNightshade]

But one of the largest complaints other than poor writing, is the lack of gameplay, the MSQ is ALWAYS going to be alot of cutscenes due to the nature of what it is. The gameplay is the side content/overworld content/dungeons. Although ARR MSQ was meh and the jobs weren't great, it had the best overworld. Dungeons were the best back then with their own self contained story, the world felt like a world. The MSQ having such a forceful emphasis on the game is going to constantly create these hit and miss expacs, if they don't introduce additional content so that players can enjoy gameplay while leveling they will really struggle to keep/gain new players.

Being forced to queue for roulettes or spam FATEs due to level locking wouldn't suddenly make the lack of gameplay in the MSQ any better. It'd feel incredibly arbitrary and lazy because that's exactly what it would be. When people complain about the lack of gameplay, especially in Dawntrail's MSQ, they want the story they're actively participating in to give them gameplay elements not have to abruptly pause and do random trials or dungeons for EXP. Frankly, that would make the 90-91 levels worse because spamming FATEs/dungeons can get boring already. In your hypothetical, I'd have to do it... then return to a very boring story segment. I was already on the verge of skipping cut scenes--something I never do. If they repeatedly level locked me, I'd 100% become a story skipper and NG+ it later when I can go through the whole thing without issue.

[Malthir]

Being forced to queue for roulettes or spam FATEs due to level locking wouldn't suddenly make the lack of gameplay in the MSQ any better. It'd feel incredibly arbitrary and lazy because that's exactly what it would be. When people complain about the lack of gameplay, especially in Dawntrail's MSQ, they want the story they're actively participating in to give them gameplay elements not have to abruptly pause and do random trials or dungeons for EXP. Frankly, that would make the 90-91 levels worse because spamming FATEs/dungeons can get boring already. In your hypothetical, I'd have to do it... then return to a very boring story segment. I was already on the verge of skipping cut scenes--something I never do. If they repeatedly level locked me, I'd 100% become a story skipper and NG+ it later when I can go through the whole thing without issue.

I would argue that people want to be engaged in the world, not necessarily with a single story. Take Tam-Tara Deepcroft Quest chain and subsequent hard mode quest chain, did you not find that engaging when you first did it. I agree being forced to repeat dungeons and grind them is not fun, I remember the Aurem Vale runs back to back to hit 50 back in ARR . Again, that's not what I'm suggesting. Have you everyplayer GW2? Each part of the map has it's own little storyline where you do objectives to fill hearts once filled they are fiinished. ESO does something similar with self contained story lines in points of interest that you go through, this would be a huge boost and a way of breaking up the MSQ which by it's nature is always going to be more cutscenes than it isn't, you can balance the exp so players don't have to grind them, they have the option of what path they want as opposed to being functionally railroaded by the MSQ. So have the MSQ be more to the point, with only the pertinent information dumped on the players for the plot and storyline, and then have the world tell the players the rest of the story of that country region etc etc.

[Kes13a]

I would argue that people want to be engaged in the world, not necessarily with a single story. Take Tam-Tara Deepcroft Quest chain and subsequent hard mode quest chain, did you not find that engaging when you first did it. I agree being forced to repeat dungeons and grind them is not fun, I remember the Aurem Vale runs back to back to hit 50 back in ARR . Again, that's not what I'm suggesting. Have you everyplayer GW2? Each part of the map has it's own little storyline where you do objectives to fill hearts once filled they are filled. ESO does something similar with self contained story lines in points of interest that you go through, this would be a huge boost and a way of breaking up the MSQ which by it's nature is always going to be more cutscenes than it isn't. So have the MSQ be more to the point, with only the pertinent information dumped on the players for the plot and storyline, and then have the world tell the players the rest of the story of that country region etc etc.

unfortunately, I would take boring MSQ over being level locked to get to the next stage/area.

[Gortys]

I would argue that people want to be engaged in the world, not necessarily with a single story. Take Tam-Tara Deepcroft Quest chain and subsequent hard mode quest chain, did you not find that engaging when you first did it. I agree being forced to repeat dungeons and grind them is not fun, I remember the Aurem Vale runs back to back to hit 50 back in ARR . Again, that's not what I'm suggesting. Have you everyplayer GW2? Each part of the map has it's own little storyline where you do objectives to fill hearts once filled they are filled. ESO does something similar with self contained story lines in points of interest that you go through, this would be a huge boost and a way of breaking up the MSQ which by it's nature is always going to be more cutscenes than it isn't. So have the MSQ be more to the point, with only the pertinent information dumped on the players for the plot and storyline, and then have the world tell the players the rest of the story of that country region etc etc.

I've played both ESO and GW2 quite a bit. GW2's hearts are like yellow quests and totally optional. I do dailies if I want to level in GW2 and even then the leveling is more horizontal at some point.
In ESO the zone quests are pretty much an MSQ. The old MSQ isn't even necessary and feels outdated. And again, there is a different leveling system in place in the game.

It's kind of hard to compare these games since their end game leveling is also different.

Edit: Also, you have been playing the game for quite a while. I have been playing for a while. We know tricks to level faster and many of us are doing fates and other content along the way. I've seen some stream and need to grind fates to catch up even in this expansion. It may not be the MSQ EXP that is the issue so much as the knowledge you have concerning leveling efficiency.

[ForteNightshade]

I would argue that people want to be engaged in the world, not necessarily with a single story. Take Tam-Tara Deepcroft Quest chain and subsequent hard mode quest chain, did you not find that engaging when you first did it. I agree being forced to repeat dungeons and grind them is not fun, I remember the Aurem Vale runs back to back to hit 50 back in ARR . Again, that's not what I'm suggesting. Have you everyplayer GW2? Each part of the map has it's own little storyline where you do objectives to fill hearts once filled they are fiinished. ESO does something similar with self contained story lines in points of interest that you go through, this would be a huge boost and a way of breaking up the MSQ which by it's nature is always going to be more cutscenes than it isn't, you can balance the exp so players don't have to grind them, they have the option of what path they want as opposed to being functionally railroaded by the MSQ. So have the MSQ be more to the point, with only the pertinent information dumped on the players for the plot and storyline, and then have the world tell the players the rest of the story of that country region etc etc.

No, actually. I found the Tam-tara quests boring but was far more forgiving of them because it's the very beginning of the game. I expected things to be slow since MMOs usually are. Now the hard mode was good but that's more due to the story surrounding Edda being a massive surprise. Very few dungeon unlocks have anywhere near that level of storytelling. Regardless, what you're suggesting remains arbitrary. It won't suddenly make Dawntrail a better MSQ if we're constantly getting side trailed or level lock. It'd feel worse for the reason I initially cited: I'm doing busywork to then return to a boring story. And if said busywork wound up being more interesting than I'm all the more annoyed at the poor writing from the MSQ. Case in point, it actively bugged me how the Leatherwork Wachumeqimeqi managed to tell forklore stories for all the races in both a concise and interesting manner yet the MSQ felt like a boring slog with the exact same races.

Both Shadowbringers and Endwalker had issues with a lack of gameplay. The difference is they kept you engaged through good storytelling. Granted, Endwalker does drag in the early quests too--Thavnair in particular. Just nowhere near as much as Dawntrail. That tells me the bigger issue is bad writing. While I'd like more actual gameplay, the main reason I was so bored going through the MSQ was because Dawntrail couldn't keep me engaged so I noticed the lack of it far more than I did previously.

[cutestfox]

I remember that ARR on release was quite like this.
The MSQ did level you, but the exp wasn't nearly enough to follow it all the way to 50- you'd be taking breaks and doing dungeon grinds with randoms on your sever and leves and fates between everything
It's still a little bit like that when you get to 46 msq on a non road-to-80 server