Give back pre-DT models back NOW

[Evergrey]

Who’s “a lot of people”? I’ve seen less than a handful demanding reversal, and usually because they’re still feeling raw and overwhelmed. The large majority of those I’ve seen unhappy with their new appearance more realistically just want some fixes and further work done on them to get closer to the original looks. The graphics update was rushed and is unfinished anyway, and they plan to complete it over the course of 7.x. Letting the devs know what they need to work on during that process is something both constructive and what they asked us to do here.

I was probably not clear enough.
When I said "reversed" I didn't mean literally go back to pre-graphical update. I was refering to how people simply wants the characters facial features to go back to pre-update.
SE have said, like you mentioned that, that feedback is still welcome and they will keep on fine tuning things.
But they have also always been clear to mention that there will be some visual differences compared to pre-DT models.
So that raises the question of when is a model done or not.
How long will people feel the need to ask for changes, and many probably feel ignored when their feedback isn't adressed when it's probably more likely that it wasn't adressed because it wasn't deemed as a needed fix.

[Aurumis]

Exactly this ^^

I actually agree that some faces definitely did stay more faithful to the original than others, but at this point reversing those is going to cause problems for people who like the way they look now and possibly already fantasiad. Like me. I was always going to change to bunny, I don't tend to stick with one race for more than an expansion if that usually, but i absolutely love the way my character looks now and it'd suck to have to fantasia again so soon if they try to "fix" the face I'm using.

The solution here really would be to add more customization options that are closer to the original. Not ideal and maybe not even likely, but there's kind of not a way to change them now that isnt going to piss *someone* off.

Didn't see this before sorry for double post

--- editing this because I don't seem to know how to read sometimes but my point stands, I agree that making a toggle or option to choose the old models for your game would be the best solution for everyone. Let's see if the address things first.---

but...your solution is that the people who are not happy continue not being happy for the rest of the game now?...

You liked your old model, that's why you used it right? So you didn't have a problem with it. Why reverting to something you like would be a problem? It's more unfair to the people unhappy now than to those who are happy. They were satisfied before with their models, as we were, but now you are just gonna have more than half of the players unhappy. I'd say reverting would be the best solution for everyone. Because you would still like your old model.

[Evergrey]

I know asking to be like before it's pointless because they will never do it. But they don't even listener to what people told them when the benchmark 1 and 2 were out. They fixed the viera noses, the hair bug, and some lightning, but that's it. Why feedback if you are not gonna fix what your players are telling?
If you fucked up, you go back. If an eye look went from normal to having a dead fish look, revert it fixing it. You make them look like before, you can still have the new lightning, texture, etc. But if you did wrong, you go back and make them look how they were before, using the new graphics or not. Many faces ARE NOT how they were before. And they PROMISED they would not modify them, just update the graphics. Which they failed completely with many faces. A lof of them look the same, or are better, but many are not and have issues.

Feedback is all good and encouraged.
But people also have to realise that feedback is never a guarantee to get adressed.
It's up to the developers to decide if a feedback is reasonable or not. If it's deemed neccessary or not.

Also SE never promised to not modify faces.
They have always been clear that some changes will be present, that it's not going to be a 1:1 from previous faces.
What they said was that they wanted to keep the original feeling as much as possible. And "as much as possible" can vary from "little to nothing" to "more than was expected".
Sometimes it probably simply wasn't possible to stay more true to the original.

[Avidria]

Didn't see this before sorry for double post

but...your solution is that the people who are not happy continue not being happy for the rest of the game now?...
You liked your old model, that's why you used it right? So you didn't have a problem with it. Why reverting to something you like would be a problem? It's more unfair to the people unhappy now than to those who are happy. They were satisfied before with their models, as we were, but now you are just gonna have more than half of the players unhappy. I'd say reverting would be the best solution for everyone. Because you would still like your old model.

I mean the trouble is that no, i dont want to go back to my old model, and the changes actually mean it would be harder for me to get a miqote (which is what i fantasiad from) to look the way i like now. Mostly because of the eyes - a lot of the races eyes feel more dull or washed out and hard to work with, and tbh that's one thing I would like them to take another look at because the colors seem less vibrant and the pupils seem fuzzy around the edges. End result is i probably wont be going back to cat for a while.

Anyway my point is that they cant really go back, and any changes they continue to make are probably not going to fully solve the problem. They definitely wont for everyone. Adding more options overall is something i think theyve needed to do for a while, and also would make it a little easier for people to get a look that feels right compared to what they had before. They need to consider the people who were happy before and the people who are happy now, and there isnt a great way to do both that won't still leave someone unhappy.

[Aurumis]

Feedback is all good and encouraged.
But people also have to realise that feedback is never a guarantee to get adressed.
It's up to the developers to decide if a feedback is reasonable or not. If it's deemed neccessary or not.

Also SE never promised to not modify faces.
They have always been clear that some changes will be present, that it's not going to be a 1:1 from previous faces.
What they said was that they wanted to keep the original feeling as much as possible. And "as much as possible" can vary from "little to nothing" to "more than was expected".
Sometimes it probably simply wasn't possible to stay more true to the original.

That's a promise to keep the characters how they were.
Also they can make it and it's quite simple, as how a friend and myself played with lightning and shadow quality option graphics of the game made our eyes look better and more like the original, instead of closed eyes without any soul. They just have to make sure the new lightning and "make up" of the faces don't obscure the eyes that much. Even the little shine in the eyes got behind the shadows of the eye lid and now you can't see it in my character in many cutscenes and expressions, apart that he lost a lot of expression.
How is this not an issue? It's bigger enough to try to fix it since it's happening in a lot of models.
I can only think they didn't have more time and used their resources in making the game playable without many bugs as possible instead of fixing the issues with the new faces. But making DT release later would have been better than having all this problems now and their playerbase not happy. Because we are not just a few. JP players did already new threads about this too.

I mean the trouble is that no, i dont want to go back to my old model, and the changes actually mean it would be harder for me to get a miqote (which is what i fantasiad from) to look the way i like now. Mostly because of the eyes - a lot of the races eyes feel more dull or washed out and hard to work with, and tbh that's one thing I would like them to take another look at because the colors seem less vibrant and the pupils seem fuzzy around the edges. End result is i probably wont be going back to cat for a while.

Anyway my point is that they cant really go back, and any changes they continue to make are probably not going to fully solve the problem. They definitely wont for everyone. Adding more options overall is something i think theyve needed to do for a while, and also would make it a little easier for people to get a look that feels right compared to what they had before. They need to consider the people who were happy before and the people who are happy now, and there isnt a great way to do both that won't still leave someone unhappy.

then it seems they will lose many players, because they already did as I've read in reddit, twitter and here. If they don't fix it, I'm not gonna continue my sub, that's it, they killed my character, I'm not giving them more money.

[Xlantaa]

Hell, no. What a entitlement.

[Cheapshot]

I was probably not clear enough.
When I said "reversed" I didn't mean literally go back to pre-graphical update. I was refering to how people simply wants the characters facial features to go back to pre-update.
SE have said, like you mentioned that, that feedback is still welcome and they will keep on fine tuning things.
But they have also always been clear to mention that there will be some visual differences compared to pre-DT models.
So that raises the question of when is a model done or not.
How long will people feel the need to ask for changes, and many probably feel ignored when their feedback isn't adressed when it's probably more likely that it wasn't adressed because it wasn't deemed as a needed fix.

You’ll just keep shifting the goalposts until we’re shooting on the same net so I’ll come back later.

[angienessyo]

then it seems they will lose many players, because they already did as I've read in reddit, twitter and here. If they don't fix it, I'm not gonna continue my sub, that's it, they killed my character, I'm not giving them more money.

What people say and what they actually do are two different things. There’s a famous post on Steam where a lot of people joined a boycott CoD group and if you looked at what those players were doing, a lot were playing CoD.

They’re never going to bring the old models back so the best you can do is provide concise feedback showing what needs fixed.

[Cheapshot]

They’re never going to bring the old models back so the best you can do is provide concise feedback showing what needs fixed.

Very true! Here’s mine:
My edit to show what my face could look like if certain technical problems were resolved and the facial features regained their former shapes.

An exhaustive analysis comparing the before and after between 6.x and 7.0’s meshes and textures on my character for the purposes of reference and discussion.

I don’t know if it’s possible to work harder to provide feedback. If it is, let me know and I’ll do it. I don’t have a good life, so this game has been my escape and comfort for years. I’d do just about anything to regain the familiarity and attachment I used to feel for my WoL.

[Granyala]

What people say and what they actually do are two different things.

This.
From what it looks in this forum, it's the same ~10 to 15 people that hardcore-rage about this.

May seem significant because these people are very active but REAL outrage about something looks entirely different. If the masses were discontented, this forum would be set ablaze.

It isn't, so by and large, the update was a success. This greatly diminishes the chance for further changes to happen, as any change now would risk upsetting people that are content.

Personally, I only would like 2 additions:
-less shiny lips option
-less cloudy pupils option for keepers

Doubt it will ever happen though.