Why are we changing Viper????

[Lieri]

They have made the ceiling of all classes so low (including the usually 500 iq opti in BLM) that they cant make Viper too busy. Basically they are forced to dumb down their own latest creation as a result of their own doing homogenizing and simplifying all classes.

[DivineP]

Picto's next with its burst.

[OliverQ]

Because apparently some people whined that it's too hard (despite being one of the easiest jobs in the game now) and SE is jumping the gun to change it less than a week after it's released.

There is nothing wrong with some jobs being more active or complex. This constant attempt to make every job identical and easy is ruining the game.

[Vyrerus]

It already plays itself... All you have to do is balance the Thanos knife, jeez.

[kaynide]

They have made the ceiling of all classes so low (including the usually 500 iq opti in BLM) that they cant make Viper too busy. Basically they are forced to dumb down their own latest creation as a result of their own doing homogenizing and simplifying all classes.

The problem with all the jobs (imho) is that there really just isn't intrinsicly difficult in pressing 6 or so button presses, regardless of what they are. 1-2-3 1-2-3 isn't more complicated than 1-1-1 2-2-2.

The jobs NEED to actually play differently; things like positioning, or comboing, or setting up moves like in Guild Wars (lay a fire trap, then do an attack through the firetrap to do a burst by "igniting your weapons" for example)

The emnity system and/or Thief's Trick attack in FF11 was a great idea.


I know it's impossible in FFXIV's setup, but something like Monster Hunter where different weapons can feel like you're playing entirely different games is a big boost.

Monk for example, should feel like you're playing street fighter with button combos; mechanist SHOULD be laying traps..etc




It just is the game as it is: all jobs play 1-2-3, all monsters are just gathered into a ball and burned down. No need to take out a healer-type first, or prioritize a certain mob. Or deal with mobs necro-raising fallen. Heck, all combat mechanics in the entire game boil down to "stand in the correct place/have things in the correct place and let attack resolve". There's no jumping over blades, there's no organic use of the environment. there isn't even a proper physics engine to jump correctly.

[Ephremjlm]

If SE actually pays attention to the forums, reddit, twitter, and fb groups like they say then I would be shocked if they actually go through with this. I have seen nothing but overwhelming hate for the announced change and usually when you have almost a unanimous agreement in this community you know it's quite a bit more than heckling.

[Colt47]

There statement that it is "too busy" is vague and doesn't really present points to debate. However, the challenges with learning the job come from a couple of places. The first one is illustrated in the weakness of transforming skills, in that the transformed version isn't assigned to a hot bar and requires someone to go into a nested menu to inspect. In PvP the first thing someone has to do is parse what all the abilities are that can be actively used, and then figure out which transform abilities link to the assignable ones. To the designers credit, they color coded the side and rear attacks but that piece of information doesn't really compute from just practicing on a target dummy.

The other part is the rather mixed up priority system that happens when someone is dealing with the awakening skill, in combination with the 20 second duration of the debuff applied per skill use. 30 seconds per application is probably better since it is kind of hard to fit everything into the window.

But the animations man. Like it is so hard to tell one skill apart from another with this job that the player has to look at the hot bar just to figure out where they are at. No amount of skill positioning is going to help considering the flashing helper light that goes around the skills isn't color coded itself. So even if someone could catch out of the corner of their eye what is the next skill, is it flank or is it rear? It's that kind of chaos that they are probably talking about with the job.

[DivineP]

If SE actually pays attention to the forums, reddit, twitter, and fb groups like they say then I would be shocked if they actually go through with this. I have seen nothing but overwhelming hate for the announced change and usually when you have almost a unanimous agreement in this community you know it's quite a bit more than heckling.

I think we know by now babe that they done. It's such a shame with the failure of 1.0 and their motto launching 2.0 - how they've gone so back on that is unreal.

I'm one of the 1.0 players and seeing CBU3 doing the same cash grab again and again is saddening. Shame.

[Ephremjlm]

Yeah I mean that's a different discussion but I have heard and read (in the old forums and others) that sentiment. I just wonder what the thought is. I mean another thing i'm seeing in the community across the board is a MASSIVE split in the DT story. So what does that mean? If now we don't have story to latch on to, and lets say its business as usual with the combat and job design even going into 8.0 then could CBU3 actually be shooting themselves in the foot?

Like I personally love the graphics/asset updates but I thought they learned their lesson with Endwalker that you can't just rely on aesthetics for everything, the game needs long term substance outside the MSQ. Jobs included.

[DivineP]

Yeah I mean that's a different discussion but I have heard and read (in the old forums and others) that sentiment. I just wonder what the thought is. I mean another thing i'm seeing in the community across the board is a MASSIVE split in the DT story. So what does that mean? If now we don't have story to latch on to, and lets say its business as usual with the combat and job design even going into 8.0 then could CBU3 actually be shooting themselves in the foot?

Like I personally love the graphics/asset updates but I thought they learned their lesson with Endwalker that you can't just rely on aesthetics for everything, the game needs long term substance outside the MSQ. Jobs included.

I've quite liked it myself (I'm at 95) but I've already been skipping CS. Cause I know how ot plays put. It's just so predictable. SE really needs to get back to ots roots if they want ff14 to succeed. Just my opinion. Xx