DPS Simplification - Just do Ultimates!

[HikariKurosawa]

So could it be that you really are are just quarrelsome.
As it seems thats all you ever seem to do here

Hikari didnt you yesterday still wrote about that you want your classes simple so content can be complex.
Now i bring to the table that encounter and dungeon design lost complexity aswell and you ignore it.
According to your own text that would be something that goes against your own desires.
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Anyway with class changes apparently also are planned for 7.2 patch and bigger focus on changes and class idendity in 8.0 and Yoshi-Ps mentioning he overdid it, we surely we some changes.
What it will be in detail? Good Question but i hope it helps all Roles and Classes.

No, not at all. Extreme trials savage raids and ultimates have all become more complex and difficult across the board. I have always maintained that the normal level content in this game should be easy. It's the purpose it serves. If all levels of content are complex and difficult then the player who wants a stress free experience literally has nothing in the battle systems to engage in in terms of group content.

If they make job design too complex, then even in normal group content that entire demographic is left feeling like they don't belong in this game. What is wrong with difficulty being found in the difficult parts of the game? Why should EVERYONE be subject to difficulty because you are unwilling to engage in harder content for whatever personal reasons you have? If you want to experience difficulty, it is waiting for you.

I have cleared uwu 3 times within about 2-3 weeks of stepping into the duty for the first time ever. All through party finder on my own schedule. I am not a good player, I was determined to learn the encounter and I did. There is nothing stopping you from doing the same. There is no time commitment or social requirement. You just start joining groups at your prog level and get it done over as much time as it takes you. Or you can complain about the Devs not listening to your complaints forever while you remain terminally discontent with the game because they won't ruin the true casual player's experience so you can have some kind of challenge without ever having to engage with the difficult parts of the game.

[Ayalu]

The thing is your eternal forth and back doesnt work with my argumentation hikari.
As i dont mean "hitting harder and faster" is complexity. I know Extreme Trials and Savage (which lets be honest are also trials) have new phases.
But i dont speak about that i directly spoke about Encounter and Dungeon design not trial,raids and the harder version of them.

As every dungeon is just a corridor with some barely threatening Mobs followed with a Boss and that repeats itself.
One could of course do more puzzle dungeons were you have actual task to do like finding keys and all that.
You know design a actualy dungeon, FF used to be good at that.

The best example of "Simplification of Dungeons" would be the The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak.





it went from literal dungeon to a corridor.
And this part of the simplification cant be tackled with "Harder" Boss fights.

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Edit: I also mentioned before in more details that "Savage/Ultimate" dont cover the critic points i mention.
You fall back to them again and again. ^^

[Ramiee]

Off topic but god damn V&C becoming 3 hallway "dungeons" instead of actual dungeons is so sad.

[Valence]

Do people actually miss old totorak?

Don't get me wrong, I do understand the want for deeper and more intricate dungeons, but that model is definitely not something that you want for dailies and repeatable content... Totorak was just miserable to go through again and again. Dungeons with more chaos and some randomized events or paths, sure, but mazes with keys to find and use? What a pain.

And I'm not even talking about the camera nightmare it was.

[Ayalu]

Do people actually miss old totorak?

Don't get me wrong, I do understand the want for deeper and more intricate dungeons, but that model is definitely not something that you want for dailies and repeatable content... Totorak was just miserable to go through again and again. Dungeons with more chaos and some randomized events or paths, sure, but mazes with keys to find and use? What a pain.

And I'm not even talking about the camera nightmare it was.

It was just a handy example of the dungeon simplification.
Of course one can do it way better than totorak itself. But "mechanics" can be a bit more interessting than "Dodge the orange glowing danger area"

Like Ramiee said V&C Dungeons could have been more puzzle dungeon and experiment for more interresting dungeon design than what they have been at the end. ^^

[Flana]

Why not try maining black mage? Why not play pictomancer when it comes out? Why not ninja? Why the simplest melee job in the game?

Why not actually make a job to fill that niche, instead of lobotomizing one that already exists?
Also I have no idea why you think me playing Reaper is a gotcha, I like the aesthetic. That's all.

[Absurdity]

Do people actually miss old totorak?

Don't get me wrong, I do understand the want for deeper and more intricate dungeons, but that model is definitely not something that you want for dailies and repeatable content... Totorak was just miserable to go through again and again. Dungeons with more chaos and some randomized events or paths, sure, but mazes with keys to find and use? What a pain.

And I'm not even talking about the camera nightmare it was.

I actually wouldn't mind that, I'm of the opinion that the original Blackrock Depths in WoW is still the best dungeon ever made in an MMO.

One big reason I can see it not work in XIV is simply the game's loot system.
BRD was so good because no matter what path you took there was usually something useful to get from one of the bosses, so your time was well-spent.

XIV on the other hand rarely has anything useful to gain out of dungeons besides the currency/exp at the end, the gear is almost always worse than what you already have and in general not very interesting, it's all just stat sticks.
When the only worthwhile thing to gain from a dungeon is the tomestones/exp on completion it quickly becomes a game of "how fast can I finish this?"

[Ayalu]

I will throw in that a lot of dungeon do have there own gear set visual wise so there is a value there.

[Ramiee]

I actually wouldn't mind that, I'm of the opinion that the original Blackrock Depths in WoW is still the best dungeon ever made in an MMO.

God if V&C was anything like Blackrock Depths I would be so happy.

[HikariKurosawa]

Why not actually make a job to fill that niche, instead of lobotomizing one that already exists?
Also I have no idea why you think me playing Reaper is a gotcha, I like the aesthetic. That's all.

You made it clear yourself. You like the aesthetic of reaper. That's why you play it. Casuals who want a stress free job shouldn't be pigeon holed into playing smn or whatever other simple job there is if we're talking about a hypothetical where a small fraction of the jobs are made simple so the rest can be complex. People of all skill levels and dedication should feel free to play the job they want to play and they should feel like they are able to do a good job with it.

This is why I commend the dev team, because they are shifting the difficulty to content and enabling more people to enjoy more jobs at all levels of skill. The people who want difficult content should celebrate it too, because all content is made with a target overall difficulty that is in consideration of the balance between job difficulty and encounter difficulty. Easier jobs means they can make harder content while still meeting the same target overall difficulty. There is a chemistry to it, and regardless of what the most hardcore players want, the devs are going to make content at this level of difficulty because they know what they are doing. So if you really want hard content, you should want for simpler job design. This is how you get harder dungeons, harder raids, harder everything.

Think of it like budget, you have 100 dollars to spend on the content regardless, if less of that budget is spent on job difficulty, you get more difficulty from the encounters. More spent on job difficulty = less spent on encounter difficulty. Whether you like it or not, the devs know how much "budget" they want to put into the content. You're not going to get both harder content and harder jobs. They are selling a product after all and know how it works as a successful business model.

I think a big problem is, most people posting on this forum don't view the game as a business and it results in some pretty far fetched perspectives that are never going to be applicable in reality. This is what we are working with, best to keep it real with you.