Please fix healers problem without touching other roles

[PercibelTheren]

Warrior having so much self healing is wrong, in my opinion. But it's the party healing that makes no sense with the class fantasy. If you want to lean into the whole "berserker too angry to die", give them a passive that reduces incoming damage as their HP goes lower, to a point. The party healing tank was supposed to be PLD, but, just like WAR took the spot of the "damage tanks", WAR also stole being the best party support because it just has to be the best at everything or the players (and a certain obnoxious streamer) throw a hissy fit.

[Sacae]

Changing Raw Intution to be percentage-based healing instead of a flat potency would solve the WAR issue, IMO. Make it basically a WAR-exclusive Bloodbath until Bloodwhetting, and then a Bloodbath with a shield. You could probably leave Nascent and Equilibrium as they are with this change.

[Turtledeluxe]

So how do you imagine a DRK or GNB +healer will work against multiple enemies, if their damage is increased enough to challenge a WAR even without a healer?

And do you agree heals from healers should never be overshadowed? If so, how do you imagine to balance that against multiple enemies? The only way to do that I see if both give healers a huge buff to ogcd healing and an obscene increase to incoming damage. And then you start running into problems that both damage and healing are so high players will have very little time to respond, which increases overall difficulty of the game hugely. They tried to avoid that with the numbers nerf a few years ago, all damage and healing was nerfed while health wasn't.

So in the end it's either nerf tanks (WAR/PLD) selfheals. Or make a LOT of other changes that have other consequences that need to be worked out, only to end up in a similar situation as just lowering some numbers on selfheals.

Sometimes I think Yoshi P has coddled people so hard and so long that they don't understand how out of touch their solutions sound for the problem that is at hand. Over correcting the entire game to counter a handful of overtuned sustain is wild, whether it has a bunch if untinended effects or not.

[Lemuel81]

It lil late for them to fix the healer issue only way to neft tanks

they can easily fix incoming damage numbers, along with as you said nerf warriors. Fix healer design next expansion.

[Connor]

Warrior should be nerfed. Its healing capabilities make absolutely no sense from a gameplay or even lore perspective (why does angry ungabunga literally undo the wounds of other people by being angry?).

I mean, the self-healing is egregious but at least it makes sense from the perspective of ‘so angry it doesn’t die’, but there is no logical reason for that to become ‘so angry its own allies can’t die ’.

Then there’s obvious gameplay aspect that incoming damage is absolutely minuscule yet Warrior is designed as if it’s going to be taking insane amounts of constantly sustained damage. Like the kind of content Warrior is designed for does not exist in FFXIV, from what I understand even ultimates don’t have such massively sustained damage output that you would literally need healers healing with every gcd and Warriors making use of every party and self-heal. I mean that’s not even going into the fact cooldowns and resources exist. Damage output in FFXIV will always be burst-oriented. I don’t think we’ll ever see sustained damage outside of the occasional Harrowing Hell style mechanic, which is essentially just a protracted burst since there’s nothing going on after it

So, who exactly are all of Warriors party/self-healing abilities for, when you also consider stuff like 40% damage mitigation abilities in Dawntrail

[Oizen]

again, a one-dimensional point of view. you only look at numbers of the 'result', not why it turns up that way.
I can list the data to prove you wrong but that requires too much effort.

I don't think you're going to win people over by saying "you're wrong but I'm too lazy to explain why"
It ends up that way because its not per weaponskill, its per target. I even opened by saying I think Bloodwhetting is fine in single target.

IDK it just sounds like you like the powertrip fantasy WAR gives in low end content.

[littlehobbit13]

The only tank in EW which needs a dramatic nerf is WAR. It's basically immortal in every piece of content 56+ whereas the other three have varying degrees of self-sustain depending on the content they do.

I will say tanks should have some levels of self-sustain to them. A bad healer shouldn't constitute an immediate wipe to the party on any pull, tanks should have some control over their own life but it's gone too far in their favour.

The crux of the problem is all there in the wording, really. "Self-SUSTAIN". Sustain means generally "to break even". You're sustaining: not going up or down. PLD, DRK, and GNB more-or-less hit the mark, where they have enough tools to prevent their own death, but not necessarily completely heal themselves (PLD can a bit but at cost to DPS, so it balances out).

Then you have WAR. WAR is basically immortal at the moment. They not only have enough abilities to completely heal themselves, but they can even heal the rest of the party at no cost. THAT'S where the problem lies. They're going beyond the scope of self-SUSTAIN. As another comment put it, tank healing should really come down to "I can look after myself for a bit while you finish that hard rez, healer". It should give them enough control over their own health so they're not panicking if the healer looks away for even a sec, but not so much that they can tell healers to basically f**k off. But that's exactly what WAR is doing at the moment because it's too over-powered in healing abilities.

If you're so self-sufficient that you've literally put a whole ROLE out of a job, you're too over-powered, plain and simple. And I'm sorry WARs are taking the idea of a nerf hard, but I play SCH, and if my capstone ability could take a nerf simply because we were sprinting for too long, then you can take a nerf to your ridiculous self-sustain because you're legit making a whole set of jobs optional. Deal with it.

[ForteNightshade]

Do I play tanks? Yes. I was a pld main until stormblood, and since I've played drk, though not primarily, but I did clear p4s with it while current.

And didn't the war god Xeno throw a fit because war wasn't top dps during one of the ultimates? It has the best or 2nd best invuln, depending on the fight.

This keeps getting tossed around when it's disingenuous. He didn't complain Warrior wasn't the top DPS. He "threw a fit" because Warrior's damage (and Paladin's) was so much lower than Dark Knight, the latter allowed for two damage downs on DPS players and a death, albeit near the end. For reference sake, in the initial weeks of P8S, Dark Knight was pulling upwards of 10-11% above Warrior and Paladin while having a better mitigation suite and the fight itself completely invalidating Holmgang. Bluntly stated, Dark Knight wasn't just slightly better, it thoroughly stomped WAR/PLD into the ground to the point bringing them over it was borderline griefing your team. Even after the buff, the discrepancy remained which saw Dark Knight have more clears of TOP than all three other tanks combined.

Dark Knight wasn't just good throughout most of Endwalker (Living Dead, notwithstanding). It was oppressively good. Hence the near constant buffs they've been doing to Warrior and Paladin. Funny enough, in spite of all the out crying, Dark Knight remains the higher DPS tank. In fact, it's only really Paladin that still falls behind at the Savage level. Shake It Off is slightly overtuned but it's only really dungeons where Warrior's sustain is silly. In Savage, it balances out with Dark Knight having better mitigation.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

This keeps getting tossed around when it's disingenuous. He didn't complain Warrior wasn't the top DPS. He "threw a fit" because Warrior's damage (and Paladin's) was so much lower than Dark Knight, the latter allowed for two damage downs on DPS players and a death, albeit near the end. For reference sake, in the initial weeks of P8S, Dark Knight was pulling upwards of 10-11% above Warrior and Paladin while having a better mitigation suite and the fight itself completely invalidating Holmgang. Bluntly stated, Dark Knight wasn't just slightly better, it thoroughly stomped WAR/PLD into the ground to the point bringing them over it was borderline griefing your team. Even after the buff, the discrepancy remained which saw Dark Knight have more clears of TOP than all three other tanks combined.

Dark Knight wasn't just good throughout most of Endwalker (Living Dead, notwithstanding). It was oppressively good. Hence the near constant buffs they've been doing to Warrior and Paladin. Funny enough, in spite of all the out crying, Dark Knight remains the higher DPS tank. In fact, it's only really Paladin that still falls behind at the Savage level. Shake It Off is slightly overtuned but it's only really dungeons where Warrior's sustain is silly. In Savage, it balances out with Dark Knight having better mitigation.

That may be, but from that and one of his blow ups in 3.x, the impression Xeno himself gives off is that anything detrimental to war being the perfect job is that he will throw a tantrum. Sorry, but that's just the result from the way he's acted over the years.

[Niroken]

This keeps getting tossed around when it's disingenuous. He didn't complain Warrior wasn't the top DPS. He "threw a fit" because Warrior's damage (and Paladin's) was so much lower than Dark Knight, the latter allowed for two damage downs on DPS players and a death, albeit near the end. For reference sake, in the initial weeks of P8S, Dark Knight was pulling upwards of 10-11% above Warrior and Paladin while having a better mitigation suite and the fight itself completely invalidating Holmgang. Bluntly stated, Dark Knight wasn't just slightly better, it thoroughly stomped WAR/PLD into the ground to the point bringing them over it was borderline griefing your team. Even after the buff, the discrepancy remained which saw Dark Knight have more clears of TOP than all three other tanks combined.

Dark Knight wasn't just good throughout most of Endwalker (Living Dead, notwithstanding). It was oppressively good. Hence the near constant buffs they've been doing to Warrior and Paladin. Funny enough, in spite of all the out crying, Dark Knight remains the higher DPS tank. In fact, it's only really Paladin that still falls behind at the Savage level. Shake It Off is slightly overtuned but it's only really dungeons where Warrior's sustain is silly. In Savage, it balances out with Dark Knight having better mitigation.

Sounds like a perfect example of how constantly buffing leads to more issues then nerfing the actual problem.