Please fix healers problem without touching other roles

[Ianmaru]

Right now tanks are better healers than healers in all situations

this is really a one-dimensional point of view and not even true. healer is the better healers, healers healing kit is superior than tank healing kit. we can even break it down to prove my point. the problem is the incoming damages are easily manageable by tank healing kit thus make healer more superior heal kit redundant.

[Atreides]

Easy fix to all those healer woes.
Add unavoidable AoE damage in dungeons, even from trash mobs, make it high enough to not be sustainable without a healer. Dungeons just don't hurt enough the damage there is laughable.

[Saraide]

You really can't balance content for AOE bloodwhetting, (its fine single target).
But in AOE, it gets so insane that the numbers honestly just sorta break. The amount of damage you'd need to contest bloodwhetting is so astronomically high that you'd be required to give DRK,GNB and PLD their own bloodwhettings, and beyond that the damage would be so high that you'd basically be oneshot as soon as bloodwhetting ends.

Like its SO overtuned for this level of content that its honestly really wasteful. Like you'll heal to max in less than half a gcd, and then the remaining 6s of the debuff basically just function as an invuln as all the healing doesn't even have a place to go.

Single Target Bloodwhetting is around a 1200-1600 cure potency if you land your 4 hits in it.
If your add pack has 8 targets, thats around 13,000 cure potency from one button, every 25 seconds.
Even if you think thats a highball remember guaranteed crit heals exist...so its really more a lowball.

I think the problems extend well beyond tank sustain and are problems with the content itself, but I do truly think this isn't something that can be left alone if they every want dungeons to be engaging for non-tank players ever again.

Ironically this would make dungeons completely uncleareable without a tank. And here I thought the people against healer changes dont want one single role be hard required.

[Supersnow845]

this is really a one-dimensional point of view and not even true. healer is the better healers, healers healing kit is superior than tank healing kit. we can even break it down to prove my point. the problem is the incoming damages are easily manageable by tank healing kit thus make healer more superior heal kit redundant.

Read oizen’s post, WAR’s single target healing in cleave content exceeds all the healers by literal leaps and bounds, even in single target WAR and PLD’s short mitigations are stronger than near any single target heal the healer has that’s not benediction (Bw is literally 1600 healer potency of healing when you factor in the shield) and GNB’s/DRK’s are roughly on par with the strongest healer CD’s and they have longer CD’s than the tank equivalent

Healers have to spend resources for these heals and the resources are often shared ones for AOE heals that are a higher priority, tanks get them for free and they get mitigation on top of them. In a savage encounter the tank heals themselves about 70% more than the healer heals them by their single target heals.

The tanks are simply better single target healers than the healers who have restrictions on the availability of their single target heals

[Ianmaru]

That's functionally a nerf to tank sustain. When incoming damage increases and self healing stays the same, the result is a nerf.

it has the same desired result as tank nerf, yes. but by definition that's not a nerf. and most of the time thats the better approach to balancing. when things are unbalanced, bringing the weaker ones up toward the stronger one is better than bringing the stronger one down toward the weaker one.
and since as you said 'the result is a nerf' then everyone who wants WAR nerf would still be happy, and those who don't WAR nerf would also be happy. it's the better win-win solution.

[Lyth]

This is actually fairly simple to resolve.

• Make tanks responsible for positioning the boss on a regular basis, and design mechanics around this. No more 'return to center, orient north, and lock into place before casting each mechanic.
• Increase the amount of tankbusters each fight, such that you're not alternating between invuln/kitchen sink. Some modern fights have fewer tankbusters across an entire fight than you would have had in a single phase of T9 or T13.
• Add in some frontal cleaves that consistently hit you for half health. This is where timing your short recast mitigation tools should come in. Couple these with crit autos to keep you on your toes.
• Rework tank sustain such that it is planned and context dependent (i.e. proportionate to damage recently received or on the difference between current HP and max HP) rather than on-demand and reactive.
• Make tank deaths have consequences outside of just swapping to the understudy.
• Limit on demand defensive resources for tanks and healers, and allow players to generate additional resources/casts through maintaining dps uptime rather than being gifted it on short recasts. Address defensive oGCD bloat.
• Make tanks more dependent on healers for survival.

At the end of the day, this comes down to providing value. Right now, tanks aren't providing value by tanking, simply because the game has removed tank gameplay over several expansions now. Instead, you play a melee dps with training wheels, with on demand burst heals and excessive mitigation to compensate for accumulating vuln stacks. This in turn devalues healer gameplay. The net result is that anyone who is remotely competent is going to swap off of supports on to DPS roles where the value lies. Which is frustrating, because support gameplay when executed correctly allows you to really be a team player.

These two issues are intrinsically linked. You need to fix the support experience as a whole, because tank and healer gameplay is tied to each other.

[Somnolence]

None of the requested changes to encounters in the thread will be done done because legacy encounters can't be changed.

Only healer job rework to balance healing/damage kits to match what they actually do is possible.

However jobs in FFXIV only get reworked when their usage stats are low, so if healers remain 1/4 so parties still form nothing whatsoever will be done.

[Ianmaru]

Read oizen’s post.... SNIP

again, a one-dimensional point of view. you only look at numbers of the 'result', not why it turns up that way.
I can list the data to prove you wrong but that requires too much effort.
I'll give you a question instead:
if all the incoming damage frequency are 3 times more often, both AA & raidwides, and the resource of healers are also tripled (check the 3rd solution I mentioned on the thread top to see an example of how it would work), and tank heal is not touched at all, do you think tank would still turn up to be the better healer?

[Supersnow845]

again, a one-dimensional point of view. you only look at numbers of the 'result', not why it turns up that way.
I can list the data to prove you wrong but that requires too much effort.
I'll give you a question instead:
if all the incoming damage frequency are 3 times more often, both AA & raidwides, and the resource of healers are also tripled (check the 3rd solution I mentioned on the thread top to see an example of how it would work), and tank heal is not touched at all, do you think tank would still turn up to be the better healer?

You are asking me “if healers were stronger healers would you still say tanks are stronger healers”

Of course healers will be stronger if you triple healing output i just don’t understand why you’d rather bend the entire rest of the game including healer design, encounters and even DPS healing over just NERFING tank healing

Nerfs don’t hurt that much, I took a nerf in 6.1

[Ianmaru]

None of the requested changes to encounters in the thread will be done done because legacy encounters can't be changed.

Only healer job rework to balance healing/damage kits to match what they actually do is possible.

However jobs in FFXIV only get reworked when their usage stats are low, so if healers remain 1/4 so parties still form nothing whatsoever will be done.

yea I'm fully aware that the fix can only be implemented for future updates, no fixing anything already rolled out. but that's better than nothing. Hope the #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE would make them consider reworking healers now.