Please fix healers problem without touching other roles

[Neoyoshi]

Tank heals, and more specifically wars sustain, is too much and should be nerfed even if there wasn't a healer issue.

So while yes healers need to be fixed, I think tanks need to lose some of their self sustain. More mit yes, but not sustain.

And if you want to leave war as the berserking healing tank, it's mitigation needs to be nerfed, like it was back in 2.0 before the first rework.

It can't have both.

I wish someone could turn back the clock a bit and remind us all what Warrior was like before this 'overpowered and self-sustain' era of the Warrior, because i firmly remember a time when folk used to joke about how much they hated warrior because it was 'trash' and Paladin at the time was the king of tanks.

Anyone? I think that should be talked about because there was a reason why the dev team did what they did to the warrior job, and i feel like old warrior mains probably remember this.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I wish someone could turn back the clock a bit and remind us all what Warrior was like before this 'overpowered and self-sustain' era of the Warrior, because i firmly remember a time when folk used to joke about how much they hated warrior because it was 'trash' and Paladin at the time was the king of tanks.

Anyone? I think that should be talked about because there was a reason why the dev team did what they did to the warrior job, and i feel like old warrior mains probably remember this.

Can go look at the patch notes for 2.1, and look at "brutal swing" - marauder lol, and warrior.



Vengeance used to not have damage reduction at all. Brutal swing was just a 300% heal based on damage done (20% Damage reduction got added to brutal swing in 2.1, and 30% to vengeance).


So if anything, this patch is where tank homogenization started. Because WAR was the "self heal" tank, and they changed it to align with PLD, because raw mit was just better.

[Niroken]

I wish someone could turn back the clock a bit and remind us all what Warrior was like before this 'overpowered and self-sustain' era of the Warrior, because i firmly remember a time when folk used to joke about how much they hated warrior because it was 'trash' and Paladin at the time was the king of tanks.

Anyone? I think that should be talked about because there was a reason why the dev team did what they did to the warrior job, and i feel like old warrior mains probably remember this.

Seems like they over-corrected... by a lot. Were warriors that bad during Endwalker they needed to double down on the healing? They should have two years of stats to back it up.

[Boblawblah]

Is Warrior played way more than other tanks? You'd think if it's THAT broken, that it would be more popular than the other tanks by a large amount. Is it?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Is Warrior played way more than other tanks? You'd think if it's THAT broken, that it would be more popular than the other tanks by a large amount. Is it?

On a certain site, for savage statistics, it shows WAR about 5k higher than the next highest, DRK, in terms of players (take this with a grain of salt) But yes. Its a significant amount higher. (almost 30%). This is for 6.4 and that tier.


For TOP, it changes from mostly DRK in 6.3, to mostly WAR in 6.5. Its something like a 80% increase over the other tanks in 6.5

[Supersnow845]

Can you imagine if SCH mains were like this when they were forced a cop an IN PATCH LIVE NERF TO THEIR STRONGEST AND FLASHIEST SKILL.

“No no don’t nerf expedience what we actually need to do is give every other healer 10 second experience while we maintain 20 second expedience then make the encounters move so much that 10 second expedience is actually just the baseline so then our 20 second expedience is functionally 10 seconds but we don’t actually have to have it nerfed”

Like come on, at some point you need to accept your job is unbalanced and that nerfs are warranted

Retuning all content around bloodwhetting requires a change to every encounter above 52 and redoing of every healing skill in the game as well as a complete redo of SGE as a class

[Ianmaru]

I'd really love to hear more opinion about how to improve healing in the game. y'all want war gets nerfed, I heard ya, I won't argue. but no need to make every thread about healing turn into 'nerf WAR' thread. so let's actually discuss about how healing & incoming damage can be improved to fix the curent broken state of the trinity, as that's the main point of the thread.
we can get WAR & PLD sustain gets nerfed to the ground but I'm telling you the trinity would still be broken anyway if thats the only thing they do, as the main issue is not fixed.
we can start from discussing the suggestions I mentioned on the top of the thread

[Supersnow845]

I'd really love to hear more opinion about how to improve healing in the game. y'all want war gets nerfed, I heard ya, I won't argue. but no need to make every thread about healing turn into 'nerf WAR' thread. so let's actually discuss about how healing & incoming damage can be improved to fix the curent broken state of the trinity, as that's the main point of the thread.
we can get WAR & PLD sustain gets nerfed to the ground but I'm telling you the trinity would still be broken anyway if thats the only thing they do, as the main issue is not fixed.

That’s the problem here he tanks self sustain is what’s breaking the trinity

The trinity is the in each role specialises in something and does that better than the other roles. Right now tanks are better healers than healers in all situations in single target and are perfectly acceptable replacement healers in casual content

You cannot fix the trinity without nerfing how far out of tune the tanks are because if you give healers something else to do they are just playing slightly garbage casters

A trinity can’t be fixed if one role is the best at two roles jobs

[Saraide]

if they double or triple up the incoming damage amount & frequency, the tank heals can stay as it is now and can still reach the desired result simply by increasing incoming damage to the point the current tank heal is not enough to cover it.

That's functionally a nerf to tank sustain. When incoming damage increases and self healing stays the same, the result is a nerf.

[Oizen]

You really can't balance content for AOE bloodwhetting, (its fine single target).
But in AOE, it gets so insane that the numbers honestly just sorta break. The amount of damage you'd need to contest bloodwhetting is so astronomically high that you'd be required to give DRK,GNB and PLD their own bloodwhettings, and beyond that the damage would be so high that you'd basically be oneshot as soon as bloodwhetting ends.

Like its SO overtuned for this level of content that its honestly really wasteful. Like you'll heal to max in less than half a gcd, and then the remaining 6s of the buff basically just function as an invuln as all the healing doesn't even have a place to go.

Single Target Bloodwhetting is around a 1200-1600 cure potency if you land your 4 hits in it.
If your add pack has 8 targets, thats around 13,000 cure potency from one button, every 25 seconds.
Even if you think thats a highball remember guaranteed crit heals exist...so its really more a lowball.

I think the problems extend well beyond tank sustain and are problems with the content itself, but I do truly think this isn't something that can be left alone if they every want dungeons to be engaging for non-tank players ever again.